Re: subjective feelings about actions?
From: necoandjeff (spam_at_schrepfer.com)
Date: 08/31/04
- Next message: Sean Gilbertson: "Re: Kanji -> Hiragana converter"
- Previous message: dc: "Re: Shift_JIS conflict with CSS?"
- In reply to: Sean Gilbertson: "Re: subjective feelings about actions?"
- Next in thread: Sean Gilbertson: "Re: subjective feelings about actions?"
- Reply: Sean Gilbertson: "Re: subjective feelings about actions?"
- Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ]
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 05:16:45 GMT
"Sean Gilbertson" <sean@bluebeard.org> wrote in message
news:2004083023211275249%sean@bluebeardorg...
> On 2004-08-30 19:29:25 -0500, "necoandjeff" <spam@schrepfer.com> said:
>
> > "Kevin Wayne Williams" <kww.nihongo@verizon.nut> wrote in message
> > news:10j7gml78ah7eb1@news.supernews.com...
> >> necoandjeff wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Kevin Wayne Williams" <kww.nihongo@verizon.nut> wrote in message
> >>> news:10j79a55o5dtkab@news.supernews.com...
> >>>
> >>>> necoandjeff wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Kevin Wayne Williams" <kww.nihongo@verizon.nut> wrote in message
> >>>>> news:10j758ol9afr803@news.supernews.com...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Sean wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I was giving myself a bit of practice by writing a short email to
a
> >>>>>>> friend in Japanese. I was going to ask him "Do you want to come
over
> >>>>>>> to my house today?" but I didn't get very far.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Try looking up the -tai conjugation of verbs, and see if you come
up
> >>>>>> with any inspiration.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think it would be a bit unusual to express "Do you want to come
over
> >>>
> >>> to my
> >>>
> >>>>> house today?" with a -tai verb, unless the -tai verb was with
respect
> > to
> >>>>> your own wishes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> My first inclination would have been something like
僕の家へ遊びに行きた
> >>>> いですか?, and I might use
僕の家へ遊びに行くことはいいですか？
> >>>>
> >>>> I was taught to use -tai forms for my own wishes and those of second
> >>>> parties, and -tagaru when the wishes were those of a third party.
> >>>>
> >>>> How far off are those rules from what you consider to be normal?
> >>>
> >>> First, you don't need the personal pronoun. It is clear from the
context
> >>> that it is your house since, if it were anyone else's house, you
> > wouldn't
> >>> call it uchi.
> >>>
> >>> Second, from your perspective they would kuru to your house not iku.
> >> Wouldn't that depend on where I was in relationship to the listener
when
> >> I asked? If we were at the office or school, wouldn't 行く be
> >> appropriate? (Serious question: I always struggle with perspective on
> >> coming and going).
> >
> > This is difficult in any language. I think if you were with the person
and
> > suggesting that you go to your house right then, you would use iku. But
most
> > other situations would probably be kuru. When talking about some point
in
> > the future, the presumption is that you would already be there so they
would
> > be kuruing from your perspective. I think even in English we would tend
to
> > say "come over" even when actually with the person wouldn't we?
> >
> >>>
> >>> The problem is, even though "want" is involved here, you wouldn't
> > typically
> >>> express this request as "do you want to..."
> >>
> >> I guess I see a difference between "Would you like to go/come to my
> >> house?" and "Please come to my house." For "Please come to my house", I
> >> like all of yours and Juha's suggestions.
> >
> > Right, but the point is you wouldn't really ask if someone wants to come
> > over like we might in English. This is an example of a situation where
the
> > direct translation approach just breaks down.
> >
> > Jeff
>
> This is the part I'm very interested in. I would like to know if the
> culture exerted a force such that the actual language only allows you
> to ask it in this way? Or, are there colloquialisms that have a more
> western approach? I'm fine with either, I just want to know.
In my experience, you could also ask in the positive with the right
intonation such as "uchi ni kuru?" but it would be highly unusual to invite
someone in the Western way by referring to the invitee's wants. You'll
notice that none of the other examples given by Cindy (an NSoJ) referred to
the wants or desires of the invitee either. I'm not saying there is never a
situation where you could refer to whether someone wants to come to your
house with a -tai verb, but just that you wouldn't typically invite someone
over with such a construction.
Jeff
- Next message: Sean Gilbertson: "Re: Kanji -> Hiragana converter"
- Previous message: dc: "Re: Shift_JIS conflict with CSS?"
- In reply to: Sean Gilbertson: "Re: subjective feelings about actions?"
- Next in thread: Sean Gilbertson: "Re: subjective feelings about actions?"
- Reply: Sean Gilbertson: "Re: subjective feelings about actions?"
- Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ]
Relevant Pages
|
