Re: successful language learners -- the little details

From: Justin Wilson (jpwilso_at_bgnet.bgsu.edu)
Date: 10/09/04 

Date: 8 Oct 2004 19:34:11 -0700

> I would use a pda with a built in camera instead. Take pictures of the
> signs etc and jot down everything else into jwpce. Put as many
> pictures from you're Japanese environment into Supermemo as possible.

Interesting, do you find it usually results in a better retention rate
than just adding a regular text item ? Is there any special advantage
to jwpce ? I've been using notepad.exe for just about everything.
Actually, come to think of it, the camera method would have been
really useful yesterday when I went into a ramen shop with a very
"artsy" (and therefore bewildering) menu. I could've at least studyied
it over later or asked someone to help me decrypt it =) IMHO the
danger of using a photograph is that I'll remember what "words" were
in the picture, as opposed to the actual form of the word. So when I
see it on the white page of a book or on a different shop's sign,
it'll be like I've never seen it before.

> I have not tried the colored glasses/pen method but don't you think it
> would be better to put them straight into Supermemo as cloze
> deletions?

Hmm.. The main reason I don't add something is that I think I can
remember it "on my own". (ie, maybe it is a word which uses 2 Kanji,
their most common onyomi readings, AND the meaning is obvious from
those 2.) I usually try to add the things I'm CERTAIN I cannot retain
without help -- that way when I see I have 400/reps for the day it
isn't going to vary from 1 hour of work one day to 5 hours of work the
next day. (Which can be very demoralizing.) If the relative
"difficulty" of all my elements is the same, I can manage time better.

What exactly do you mean by cloze deletion ? Are you talking with the
definition or with an example sentence ? Do you do both directions ?
(ie, fill in the blank, AND from the single word fill out the
definition ?) When I add words to SM with strictly a passive learning
rep (ie, word to definition recall) I usually feel dissatisfied as
when I want to SAY the word, I don't know it -- I only know there is a
word that I can recognize that means what I want to say.

> I think that's a little too optimistic. Its about 70 new words per
> day. Perhaps you should aim at finishing level 2 instead? I find 40
> new words a day is a good target.

Hmmm.. it's a hard call, since the more you learn, the less % you will
have an opportunity to "activate" in a conversation in the following
days. But at the same time, a small vocabulary is always a barrier to
comprehension. The main thing I'm really interested in is discovering
better ways to activate new vocabulary. ie, I'm not sure if, for
example, writing practice using the new words could be as useful for
activating them as trying really hard to use them "on the fly".

> 3-4 hours each day sounds manageable. I'm doing 2-3 hours weekdays and
> 6-7 hours on Saturday and Sunday. My review takes about 1.5-2 hours
> and the rest of the time I spend reading and adding new words.

I'm glad to hear this. I'm always curious to hear the hour #'s from
serious SMoers, since there are so many detractors that will say "oh
spending 2 hours/day with rote memorization is ridiculous" and even
others who will tell me I ought to take a "lifetime learning approach"
to the language :) Being one who initially had not the slightest bit
of studying willpower, and having had to work extremely hard to
develop it, I'm never quit sure if I reached my goal of finally "being
able to study at least as hard as a normal person" or am trying to
push beyond it.

Actually when I get myself into the right psychological mode even 6 or
7 hours of drilling can be pleasurable, especially when I can see my
comprehension sky rocket a few days later. What do you do outside of
your daily reps on the weekend to get so many hours in ? Or are you
running mercy for reps you didn't quite polish off earlier in the week
?

> You didn't mention mnemonics. Are you using any? How about writing
> kanji? I hope you have already done RTK 1 & 2.

Lucky for me I don't need to pay much attention to this. I've already
got the vast majority of the Jouyou list down pat when I studied
Chinese. Usually my reps for Eng. Def -> Kanji and Kana -> Kanji are
rescheduled very quickly to like 6 months in the future, while my Eng.
Def -> Kana reps make my life miserable =)

> I think you're very motivated and sure to do well but 10,000 words in
> 4 months may be abit too much.
> Its certainly great to hear someone else apart from me and Randy
> mention Supermemo in slj.
> I also think most other responses to you're post will be ridicule or
> jokes (like last time).I think this comes from the fact these people
> lack motivation, imagination, discipline and good learning software.

Thanks :) That makes me feel a lot better about it. Though if I can
use the ridicule to add a bit of "pressure" or the feeling of wanting
to "prove someone wrong" perhaps it can be a positive thing.

Anyway, the fact that any short cut (such as Heisig's method) seems to
get cut down or questioned -- instead of supplemented and improved,
definitely leads me to be weary of the "traditionalist" thinking that
abonds. (And that I don't need to waste my time with.) Supermemo is an
absolutely useful tool, and anyone who would bother questioning it,
imho, is the type that believes in tradition for the sake of
tradition, and is welcome to waste 10 years memorizing and
rememorizing the same word list, but there can be no debate with'em --
we can enjoy our retention :)

-Justin