Re: nakunaru hazu desu ? nakunari sou desu?

From: Sean (seanpantsholland_at_telus.pants.net)
Date: 12/29/04 

Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:58:52 GMT

necoandjeff wrote:
> Sean wrote:
>
>>necoandjeff wrote:
>>
>>>Sean wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>IIJIMA Hiromitsu wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>BINANS in the least, but this one seems to be stating the obvious.
>>>>>>Sooner or later, the gasoline will all be used up. It's
>>>>>>inevitable. $BCY$+$lAa$+$l%,%=%j%s$,$J$/$J$k$O$:$G$9!#(BUnless you leave
>
> the car parked,
>
>>>>>>with the engine off.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>$B;d$J$i$=$&$$$&$H$-$O(B
>>>>>$B!{!{$"$?$j$G%,%=%j%s$,$J$/$J$j$=$&$@$+$i(B
>>>>>$B$H8@$&$J$"!#!V$O$:!W$H$$$&8@$$J}$OCGDjE*$9$.$k!#(B
>>>>
>>>>$B$=$&!)$@$C$F!"%(%s%8%s$,Av$C$F$$$k$J$i$1$C$-$g$/%,%97g$K$J$k$N$O@dBP$8$c(B
>>>>$B$J$$$+!#(B
>>>
>>>
>>>I can't believe I'm letting myself get sucked into this but$B!V(B $B%,%97g!W(Band
>>>$B!V%,%9$,$J$/$J$k!W(Bare different. Our last car was purchased new from the
>>>dealer in 2002 and we just got rid of it a few months ago before we
>>>came to Japan. Not once during that time did the gas $B$J$/$J$k(B.
>>>
>>>Jeff
>>>
>>
>> I expect that is because you have suddenly decided to add a third
>>factor, the refilling of the tank before it reaches its inevitable
>>state of emptiness.
>
>
> Inevitable huh? Despite the fact that this inevitable state of emptiness is
> in fact quite evitable by simply filling the tank before it runs out, as
> most people do.
>
>
>>If you rush about randomly introducing new
>>factors left and right, well, then of course you can come to any
>>conclusion you wish.
>
>
> Huh. And here I was thinking that it was you introducing a completely
> misplaced assumption that someone would just drive and drive until they ran
> out of gas, in support of a bizzare assertion that a statement that the gas
> is expected to run out is always true...
>
Just trying to keep things trim and clean. An object in motion will
remain in motion, in a straight line, unless acted upon by some outside
force. The fuel tank of a running engine will inevitably become empty
unless acted upon by some outside force, such as Jeff.
To bring us back to the beginning, it was about $B$O$:(B. I ventured the
idea that the sentence $B%,%9$,$J$/$J$k$O$:$G$9(B evokes this idea of the
inevitable obvious (or the obvious inevitable?). $B%(%s%8%s$,Av$C$F$$$k>l(B
$B9g$K$O!"$b$7C/$b%?%s%/$K%,%9$rF~$l$J$1$l$P!"CY$+$lAa$+$l%,%9$,$J$/$J$k$O(B
$B$:$G$9!#(B(BTW, could someone present a definitive set of guidelines for
using commas in Japanese?)
Pretend for a moment that I am not a facetious and annoying imp, and
address the question of $B$O$:(B, for the edification of any who may still
be following this thread. Mr. Hiromitsu pointed out that, for him, it
was too conclusive or decisive an expression because, if I understood
him correctly, one doesn't know exactly where or when the gas will run
out. (To which I responded that a bit of skillful math could take care
of that.)
I'm not a guy who sits around reading scientific articles in Japanese.
So I'm wondering if, when scientists are stating their expectations
based on sheer reasoning, do they ever express those expectations with
$B$O$:(B? For example, if we get Jeff to sit under an apple tree in the
autumn, we might suggest that there is a chance that an apple will hit
him on the head. That is not a case for $B$O$:(B. But if asked what will
happen when the bond breaks between the stem of the apple and the branch
of the tree, we might predict that the apple will fall. Now, I know that
most of the Japanese of my acquaintance would probably say $BMn$A$k$G$7$g(B
$B$&(B (because who wants to commit himself, eh?), but would this not be a
good case for $B$O$:(B?

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