Re: Need help choosing a novel to read
From: Kevin Gowen (kgowenNOSPAM_at_myfastmail.com)
Date: 01/14/05
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Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 23:57:32 -0500
necoandjeff wrote:
> Kevin Gowen wrote:
>
>>necoandjeff wrote:
>>
>>>Kevin Gowen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>necoandjeff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Kevin Gowen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Gavin Steyn wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Since teaching myself Japanese
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No, you aren't.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>As a fellow dokukgakuer, I wonder if you might clarify what you
>>>>>mean here Kevin.
>>>>
>>>>You've never had any guidance whatsoever?
>>>
>>>
>>>>From a teacher? No, not until I had already been studying for 4
>>>years and was conversational. Even my girlfriend back then didn't
>>>really give me guidance so much as act as a sounding board for
>>>things I figured out on my own. I learned most of my Japanese early
>>>on from dictionaries, trudging through books word for word, and
>>>television dramas, as well as listening in on conversations among
>>>Japanese. The only real guidance I had was for one year at Nagoya
>>>University, but that was after 4 years of studying on my own and
>>>getting to the point that I was able to pass the test and get the
>>>monbusho scholarship. By then I was already approaching JPL2
>>>ability.
>>
>>By "guidance" I don't necessarily mean an instructor. No one ever
>>taught me English.
>
>
> No one ever taught you English? Well perhaps that is why you are having
> trouble with what English speakers commonly mean when they say self-taught.
> By your definition, I think it is safe to say the only person in the world
> who is self-taught in a language is L.L. Zamenhof, being self-taught in
> Esperanto.
Well, Tolkien surely taught himself Quenya. When I think of
"self-taught", I think of Srinivasa Ramanujan.
> Do you suppose that is how "self-taught" is commonly understood,
> Kevin?
As you may have figured out by now, I don't spend much time speculating
about how this or that is commonly understood. Too ad numerum for me.
Besides, what good is being common? I didn't get where I am today by
aiming for the median.
> If you learned in a classroom under the guidance of a teacher, you
> are not self-taught. If you learned by yourself using reference books,
> dictionaries, texts, etc., outside of the formal classroom setting you are
> self-taught. Does anyone else have trouble with this concept?
I understand perfectly well that is your notion. I just disagree that
you did it all by yourself. You benefited from interaction with native
speakers and immersion in a Japanese environment. No one made you sit in
a chair and hand in homework, but you certainly didn't teach yourself.
- Kevin
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