Re: Pronunciation of a word if you only know Kanji/Romaji spelling possible?
- From: muchan <qqn@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:23:54 +0200
B. Ito wrote:
"TGOS" <tgos@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote
Hello everyone!
I guess that is the right group to finally ask some questions about the Japanese language ^_^
Does it mean they are the final questions? ^_^
I know very little about the Japanese language. I can count to ten, know a few common phrases and maybe 30 words. I can't read Kana; not even Kanji. And as you will see in this post, I even have my trouble with Romaji.
At least you wrote Romaji, not Romanji, it means you know something about Japanese. ^_^
But I like the Japanese culture. I like para para, I listen to Japanese radio stations all day long, I love animes, I could eat sushi daily, I read a lot about Japanese history, I like traditional clothes... I could go on like that forever.
That's good. It's a same for me not knowing para para. Well I know what it is, (not exactly), but I can't sing nor dance one.
So I should get more in contact with the language. But far more important than being able to read or write the language is understanding the language to me. I don't even care to speak it (I have nobody to talk with), it would be enough if I would understand it well enough to understand maybe 60% of a Japanese song.
Without needing to read and write, probably Japanese is one of easier language to be fairly good... (controversal?)
But learning kana (hiragana/katakana) won't be so hard, and it won't hurt you knowing them. Well, they are also a part of Japanese culture you love.
I think B.Ito's collection of songs and translation really suits for you, but I don't know if his pages show romaji version...
My question is about pronunciation. Does every word has an own, unique pronunciation, only partly related to how the word is written in Kanji/Romaji, or are there pronunciation rules to follow, maybe with exception?
Every word consisted with one or more phonetical unit called "mora", typically with one (or none) consonant and one vowel. In your example, "anata" is three moras, a-na-ta. The pronounciation of "more" is more or less fixed. So you don't need to learn pronounciation word by word.
Exception are one "waiting" or "skipping mora, and nazal mora "n","m","ng" without vowel.
Once you learn kana and pronounciation of each, basically you can pronounce every Japanese words fairly correctly. (well, you need to learn how and when to use n/m/mg, and then accent and intonation to be perfect...)
In detail: I'm currently addicted to a Japanese song. It's the greatest song I've ever heard. I heard it again and again and again. It's in an endless loop for more than 2 hours and I don't get sick of it! ^_^;
After a while I was able to sing along the refrain, but I still had no idea what she sings about. I didn't even know the title of the song. It took me two days to figure out the title:
Suki ni Nattara Saikyou!
And once I had the title, finding the lyrics was very easy. The refrain, according to a non-native Japanese speaker (who spent some years in Japan) is:
suki ni nattara saikyou! Anata no koto aishichattara saikou! Hyaku paasento suki!
And he also provided a translation:
After I fell in love with you, I got stronger! After I fell in love with you, my life's been a blast! I love you 100%!
Seems to be a very "free" translation if you ask me.
This Romaji text arised several questions:
1) What mans "Anata no koto" really? I've seen it hundreds of time in all kind of different contexts and the translation was always different in the context. What does it actually mean? Please don't laugh at me, but doesn't it mean something like "You my thing"?
--------------------------------------------------------- mans .....means "Anatano koto" is "your things" in a verbatim transaltion, which could be "you", "your being", "what you are", "your news", "anything abou you" etc. & etc. depending on each context.
"suki" doesn't have equivalent in English. "Feeling of liking something", or "having feeling of liking something"...
To say "I like something" when that something is a matter,
o-cha-ga suki. I like tea. neko-ga suki. I like cats.
you don't say "-no koto", but to say "I like someone",
anata-ga suki. I like you.
maybe sounded too strong? (I don't know), and there is indirect expression
anata-no-koto-ga suki. (lit.) I like things of you. (means) I like you.
2) How comes suki is twice pronounced in a different way? The first one "suki ni" is pronounced like we'd say "skini". But in "Hyaku paasento suki!", it is pronounced "suki", the "u" is spoken. Isn't it twice the same word!?? I know suki means like or love, however, I thought most of the time it is used to say that you like something and I thought the "u" is never spoken.
Think that the form of mouth to say "u" is the basic formation for speaking Japanese, and any consonant (except t and d, n) without vowel, are conceived as if the vowel "u" is following.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"suki" could be noun and verb same as in English.
Yes the same word (spelling) is used twice line as in the English translations.
THe translation should have used "like" in the first, and "love" in the second...
3) Is there a rule when a vocal is not spoken and when it is spoken? If something ends with "u" (e.g. "desu"), the "u" seems to always be silent. Is this a good rule of the thumb? But what if it is in the middle of the word? I know how each Kanji sign is pronounced and the the "u" of "su" in "suki" is pronounced "su", but in the word the "u" is gone. Do you have to know for each word how it is pronounced or is there a way to get the right pronounciation from Romaji/Kanji only? If so, what are the rules?
---------------------------------------------------- "suki" is always correct both in vocal and converstation. However it could be understood most of the time even if you pronounce like "ski".
"suki" may sometimes be "ski" but "sushi" can't be "sshi" at any time.
I heard some attempt to make general rules about when to drop "u", like when sandwiched between unvoiced consonants except... (I remember my father was once explaining it to me...)
But I'm rather thinking that at any time they are dropped (unvoiced)... "sshi" in roman character doesn't seems like "sushi", but if the first s is said with the mouth forming "u" just unvoiced, it is heard as "sushi". I think lot of people in Tokyo, often drop the voice of "su" to say "sushi" in fast conversation.
(That is "unvoiced su" is not equal to just consonant of "s", but there is no romaji to indicate "unvoiced mora"...)
4) I'm not too happy with the translation of the refrain above. Is it really correct? What is the verbatim translation of the lyrics? (make it sound stupid and gramatically wrong, I don't care, but stick to the words that are really there). I only can confirm myself that the last sentence mentions 100%.
Thank you and I'm looking forward to your replies ^_^
-- TGOS
--------------------------------------------------------------- OK.
suki ni nattara saikyou! Anata no koto
love, when I beome, I'll be the strongest ! everything about you
aishichattara saikou! Hyaku paasento suki!
When I've fallen in love, That's the best ! 100 percent love !
"saikou !" could also be "I'll be the happiest !"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B. Ito jg2cme@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 日本名曲・英語ヴァージョン、全曲３5０数曲 HP: http://www8.ocn.ne.jp/~bito/ ;
This site is probably best for you. And you can request him to work on that song for the next... (if not already...)
muchan
.
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