Re: Origin of -nai
- From: Zhen Lin <lowzl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 18:41:09 +0800
Bart Mathias wrote:
> Zhen Lin wrote:
>
>>According to the 大辞林, 〜ない may not be etymologically linked to 無
>>し... or not very directly. Instead, it is traced to possibly being the
>>連用形 of the East Japanese 助動詞 なふ, which is in turn analysed as ぬ
>>＋ふ.
>>
>>What meaning does ふ add to ぬ in なふ?
>
>
> I've always taken that "...An(u)-Ap-" etymology as wild speculation.
> Usually -Ap- (the vowel is sometimes "o" or "u" instead of "a"--or maybe
> this is just my own reading) adds a sense of iteration or li' dat to the
> meaning of the root verb. "tatak-ap-" = "beat-le, battle." "tukur-op-"
> = "keep making → mend." "ip-ap-" and "nor-op-" do different things to
> verbs that basically mean "utter, say"; it's a little difficult to
> explain that this is a matter of interation, but I think it is.
>
> I can't answer your question about the なふ as negative. But I have no
> competing wild speculation to offer.
>
> I think the connection is based on the facts that people with
> book-learning transcribed the Eastern negative as "-nape1" and the
> (verb) negative is "-nai" in the same East. I haven't seen how the
> proponents of this idea account for the "-k(u)(-)" forms of the Eastern
> verb negator, but presumably it would be by contamination with the
> adjective 無し.
>
>
>>Why is なひ missing from the conjugation chart for なふ at 大辞林? ...
>>For that matter, how is it that the 連体形 is なへ?
>
>
> If "at 大辞林" is a free online dictionary, I haven't learned how to
> access it yet.
There are a few places - aside from the bookstore - that you can access
it - including at http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/
> But my guess would be that no 連用形 examples turn up in
> the old literature. As for why the 連体形 is なへ, again it's only my
> guess, but I suspect it is basically because people talk funny, and them
> Azuma guys no less than anyone else.
Indeed. Was Azuma very different to the standard of the time? More so
than modern Kansai and modern standard?
> Also, man'yogana was devised to
> write the Central Japanese dialect of the time, and even if the writers
> heard things correctly, there must have been cases when they couldn't
> come all that close in writing. Imagine trying to write Nagoya-ben in
> straight modern kana.
That could be troublesome... Speaking of which, I never really got a
chance to hear real Nagoya-ben... hm.
>>What's the earliest use of ない?
>
> As a verb ending? You got me, either way; waaay before my time. If
> it's really from -nape, then no earlier than p → f → w/0 in the dialect
> in question. If you mean 無き → ない, then probably Heian times (it
> doesn't show up in documents nearly as much as adjective く → う,
> though, if at all).
無い emerged so early? Hm. I thought it was some Edo thing... So the
conflation of 無し and 無い came later then?
But yes, my original question was about 〜ない. So I guess that too was
from around Edo? Apparently, it is mentioned in the 日本大文典
>>When did ない start being conjugated as an adjective? Before or after it
>>overtook ず・ぬ as the usual means of making a negative?
>
> Did it ever overtake ず・ぬ? Aren't you talking about different
> dialects, one of which seemingly never had ず・ぬ (or expanded on it in
> pre-documented times)?
Ah, I guess I should rephrase. When did the standard language of the
time start using 〜ない instead of 〜ず・ぬ? I'm guessing it's linked to
the rise of Edo Japanese. Or was it later still, during the Meiji
Restoration?
> You always ask such interesting questions that I can't resist responding
> even though I don't know the answers. My apologies.
It's a bad habit of mine. Perhaps I will publish a book one day,
"Unsolved problems in Japanese linguistics".
.
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