Re: QUERY: No transitive verb in Japanese?

mirror wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 07:00:52 -0800, Dan Rempel
<drempel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I'm over my head here, too. But `o' (`wo') and `ka' are so
semantically clean when taught using European grammatical parsings
that their native Japanese purpose in an utterance is not realized.
You can see where this approach falls apart when you deal with,
say, `ni' and `to.'

Since I think I'm missing something here could you give some examples?
They don't have to be techy or anything, just so I can get a sense of
what you mean by "their native Japanese purpose...," and why に and と
are problematic.


I think `ni' is ambiguous when it is said to mean both `to' and
`from' in the giving and receiving verbs, and also when it is
called a flag for an adverbial phrase. And the particle `to'
signals both `togetherness' and `quotational-ness' (and it signals
a quote of anything perceived by the senses, so someone acting like
Johnny Carson, for example, quotes Johnny Carson's behavior). Both
`ni' and `to' must, fundamentally, be rooting in unified definition
so the English translations have to be eliding something about
these particles that native Japanese speakers possess. On this last
observation, `wa' and `ga' are grasped by Japanese five-year-olds.
When it comes to the proper use of these particles, a Japanese
five-year-old's information on their proper use trumps that of the
finest Western scholar at the best university you can find. Think
of another academic discipline where that is the case.

Things like に and と may or may not be derived from the same earlier
words, but I don't think they necessarily have to "be root[ed] in [a]
unified definition." You can think about 'to' in English: "I'm going to
Japan"/"I'm going to eat." Pretty different meanings there. Similarly "I
have a box of books"/"I have a box of Pat's." ISTM that translating
function words like that is tricky, since you pretty much have to
translate them into other functions words that may have a whole other
set of meanings besides the specific one you're searching for.

Dan
.

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