Re: Opinions here of the "classic" Nelson?

Bart Mathias <mathias@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
Lg9Rf.4177$Px4.2841@trnddc04:">news:Lg9Rf.4177$Px4.2841@trnddc04:

Jack Crane wrote:
Bart Mathias <mathias@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
_LEQf.9907$CI6.2975@trnddc07:">news:_LEQf.9907$CI6.2975@trnddc07:
[...]
I don't see much to correct, except the notion that the original
Nelson "corrected the irrationality of the traditional system" when
he moved the "wa" in question to the kuchi section.


No. The classic Nelson has "wa" in the nogi section. In the
traditional
system "wa" is in the kuchi section. Isn't it a Catch 22 that in the
traditional system you have to already know that "wa" is in the kuchi
section in order to look it up?

Unless you recognize the slip of the hand in what I wrote, it makes no
sense at all.

I'm sorry, but what is it that makes no sense at all?

I'm not arguing that character dictionaries can't be made for easier
look-up. The four-corner system is neat, and the suggestion the New
Nelson reviewer made about listing under false classifiers works too,
but it isn't be the real 214-classifier system. The meaning of the
character has nothing to do with grain so from the point of view of
early Chinese lexicographers it shouldn't be classified under that
element of the character, which was apparently chosen as a hint as to
how to pronounce the word. Granted, that wasn't very thoughtful
towards
a person who finds the character out of context and has no way it
isn't a grain word.

But the (sad?) fact remains that, as others have pointed out, unless
one plans to get by with Nelson one's whole life, one needs to learn
the basics of the original, non-pragmatic, system as well.

Could you briefly explain what those basics are? Are there not many
characters with arbitrarily assigned radicals? Is there a "kotsu" to
learning these? I ask because I have for a long time wanted to use a
kanwajiten but have avoided doing so because of the frustration of not
being able to find many kanji. I'd return to my classic Nelson and find
them immediately.

Thanks,

Jack
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Opinions here of the "classic" Nelson?
    ... The classic Nelson has "wa" in the nogi section. ... In the traditional system "wa" is in the kuchi section. ... The four-corner system is neat, and the suggestion the New Nelson reviewer made about listing under false classifiers works too, but it isn't be the real 214-classifier system. ...
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  • Re: Opinions here of the "classic" Nelson?
    ... But I seem to remember using a kanwajiten and running into the problem, a Catch 22 if you will, of needing in some cases to know the traditionally assigned radical of a kanji before you could look it up. ... I don't see much to correct, except the notion that the original Nelson "corrected the irrationality of the traditional system" when he moved the "wa" in question to the kuchi section. ... But there is no rule that classifiers have to be on the left, or on the top, or anything like that. ...
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  • Opinions here of the "classic" Nelson?
    ... I just discovered that the "classic" Nelson, ... been trying to advise a friend studying Japanese on what kanji dictionary ... Nelson's 12-Step system will lead to failure--the character is not listed ... dumbing-down of the process of learning the radical-stroke character ...
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