Re: Orenji - heard on the subway

Zhen Lin wrote:
Sharptongue wrote:

This is the sort of thing I'm getting at
i.e. where the NG instead of G would change one word into another and
confuse the meaning.


That is rarely the case. There are very few minimal pairs between [N]
and [g], and for most speakers this distinction is non-existant.
Shibatani gives the following examples:
/o:garasu/ 大ガラス（大硝子）
/o:Narasu/ 大烏
/o:gama/ 大蝦蟇
/o:Nama/ 大釜

As far as I am concerned though, [kaNi] 'key' and [kani] 'crab' do not
sound close enough to ever be confused. Do you regularly confuse, say,
'sinner' /sIn@r/ and 'singer' /sIN@r/? If you do not, then I fail to see
how you could confuse [kaNi] and [kani] - just remember that [N] does
occur in Japanese, either as an allophone of /g/ or /N\/.

* Note: I am using [N] as the velar nasal in this discussion, not the 撥
音 ん, which I am writing as /N\/ here.

I doubt whether "ng" as one pronounciation of ん, and "ng" as alternative
pronounciation of consonant "g" of が、ぎ、ぐ、げ、ご are considered as
same, in Japanese. As for "Japanese ear", ng as one mora is heard as ん,
and ng followed with vowel in one mora are heard as "g", so かぎ
pronounced as two mora /ka-ngi/ is never heared as かに。

Let's see, the pronouciation of 簡易 /kaN-i/ and nasal かぎ /ka-ngi/,
without "mora separation" they can be transcribed as /kangi/, but
are they different /ng/? I say yes.

For 簡易 I don't say/hear any /g/ sound. for かぎ, I say/hear
"a variation of" /g/ sound. I think "nasal g" shouldn't be wrote as /N/.


muchan
.

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