Re: Neutral meaning of the particle "O"

On 3/21/06 4:37 PM, in article
1fbbb9259c98fee7b1a9597e03c59df1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Dan Rempel"
<drempel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

mirror wrote:
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:16:17 -0800, Dan Rempel
<drempel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

What is your definition of transitivity?


In English: A verb that takes an object without being separated
from that object by a preposition. By definition, this object is
ragarded as a "direct object." Transitivity names this
relationship, but it does not define it -- a verb that directly
bumps against an object (no preposition involved) is what defines
it.

I think it would help clarify your arguments if you used more commonly
accepted definitions for some of these terms. To the best of my
knowledge transitivity refers to the number of objects a verb takes,
without regard to the type of object. A direct object is a noun phrase
that has a particular grammatical relationship to a predicate (I don't
think objects of prepositions are referred to as "direct objects), and
so on. I've been trying to follow this thread, but I'm still really
unclear on exactly what you're trying to say, although my innate 馬鹿-
ness may have something to do with that.

I was starting to think that (of myself), but I've been changing my mind. I
think mirror may have got him/herself into a philosophical cramp for no
pressing reason. I don't quite see why the lack of a preposition "defines"
transitivity, although it is a syntactic feature of transitivity in English.
In English the agent and the object are identified by position in "Bob ate
the pickle." In Japanese there's an を helping things along, but either way,
the pickle has passed from this vale of tears.
What is the utility in this 理屈っぽい analysis?

.

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