Re: I need some help from native speakers of Japanese


"Cindy" <cindy15464973@xxxxxxx> wrote in message news:29OdnePWysA82cTZnZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
B. Ito wrote:


"Cindy" <cindy15464973@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:vJWdnd7q2ej9gsTZ4p2dnA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Bart Mathias wrote:

Ray wrote:

Cindy wrote:

Ray wrote:

2. *Where do you think that he was unhappy because he saw his enemy?



karega tekini deatte fushiawase ni nattanowa dokodato omoimasuka?



Thank you for your reply, Cindy.

Could you please provide gloss, i.e. word-for-word translation, for the
Japanese example you've given?

I need to know its structure, so I need to know word-for-word meanings
first.



I doubt if the meaning of Cincy's Japanese is what you had in mind. Hers
would "literally" be "Where do you think it is that he met an/his enemy
and became unhappy?" That has the "where" moved out of the main clause
of the quote ("Where did he [meet his enemy and become unhappy]?"), not
the adverbial clause.

I'm not one of the native speakers who's help you seek, but I think that
might be--not too clumsily--expressed leaving the "where" in the main
clause:


どこで彼は敵にあって不幸になったと思いますか？　の方がよかったのかな？

かれが敵にあって不幸になったのはどこだと思いますか？　じゃだめなわけね。

私にはどちらも同じどす。　これはなんだかクイズ番組のクイズみたいな文章だ
なあ。

---------------------------------------------------------------
そもそも、このポストの一番問題は、　日本語はどうでもなるのだから、テキス
トで
ある英文ちゃんとした語法に基づいて書いてもらわないといけないよね。

そもそも、一番問題の前の問題は、このレイさんという人は基礎から勉強する意
志はなさそうだってことですねえ。この人の質問に深入りすると後が恐そうな気
が。日本語すごい簡単だと思っているようだなあ。質問は一文、リプライはバー
ト先生が手間隙（てまひま）かけてずらーっと。これ、やる人の身になってみま
しょう、ちょっとたいへんな作業だと思いませんか？　あと、もしかしたら、レ
イさんは日本語の教授ただだと思っているかも。
---------------------------------------------------------------
ねぇ。　それがわかると、大変な作業ですね。
それはそうだけど、そんな大事業の計画書をまるでいとも簡単にまとめられると
思っていらっしゃるこのお方はよほどの大人物かもしれませんよ。

そこで、日本の諺を一つ、
「馬には乗ってみよ、ひとには沿ってみろ。」

この場合、「ひと」は、果たして「人」かな、もしかすると「他人」かな。それによって、
意味（含蓄）が変ってくるものね。　だから、ひらがなにしたのだけど、これも日本語

の便利さ、器用さでしょうね。

ところで、以前にも書いてますが、"Where do you think that he has gone?"なんて
綴る英語文、本当に文法的に許される（存在する）んでしょうか。　私は始めてお目に

かかるんですが。

今彼の元ポストをみすると、それらしきことがかかれているのに気がつくのですが、
それだったら、まず最初に、

"Where do you think he has gone?" = "Where do you think that he has gone?"
とはっきりとした大前提がほしかったですね。

示された英文の本当の意味が分からないのにそれの日本語を書く資格は私には
なかったみたいです。　ましてその辺の微妙な違いを日本語で解説するなんてこと
はね。　１０年早い、なんて言われそう。





第一、　"Where do you think that he has gone?" というような、　where も
　that
も使用した英文はないんじゃない（接続詞 that を用いると、where　はthink　を

修飾するのみでしょう？）。　　それに　think　という動詞も　このテキスト
文には
むかないね。
ーーーーーーーーーーーーー
Ｂ．Ｉｔｏ







kare-ga doko-de teki-ni deat-te fushiawase-ni nat-ta-to
he-nom where-at enemy-dat come upon-and unhappy-dat become-past-quote

omoimasu-ka
(you) think-?

I suspect you really mean "Where do you think he met his enemy,
resulting in his being unhappy?"

A problem is that Japanese doesn't move the question word. A likely
translation of what I think you mean by 2. might be almost as I have
rephrased Ciny's version above, namely:

kare-ga doko-de teki-ni deatta-kara fushiawase-ni
he-nom where-at enemy-dat came upon-because unhappy-dat

nat-ta-to omoimasu-ka
became-quote (you) think-?

Perhaps the "where" = "doko" could be moved out as per Cindy's model,
but I suspect it would need to be replaced by a solid dummy. I'm not
sure this is Japanese, but it's the closest I can get to that sort of
thing:

kare-ga soko-de teki-ni deatta-kara fushiawase-ni
he-nom there-at enemy-dat came upon-because unhappy-dat

natta-no-wa doko-da-to omoimasu-ka
becme-[place/...]that-top where-is-quote (you) think-?

Bart



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Relevant Pages

  • Re: I need some help from native speakers of Japanese
    ... Could you please provide gloss, i.e. word-for-word translation, for the ... I doubt if the meaning of Cincy's Japanese is what you had in mind. ... That has the "where" moved out of the main clause of the quote, ... nat-ta-to omoimasu-ka ...
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  • Re: I need some help from native speakers of Japanese
    ... Could you please provide gloss, i.e. word-for-word translation, for the ... I doubt if the meaning of Cincy's Japanese is what you had in mind. ... That has the "where" moved out of the main clause ... nat-ta-to omoimasu-ka ...
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  • Re: I need some help from native speakers of Japanese
    ... Could you please provide gloss, i.e. word-for-word translation, for the ... I doubt if the meaning of Cincy's Japanese is what you had in mind. ... That has the "where" moved out of the main clause ... nat-ta-to omoimasu-ka ...
    (sci.lang.japan)
  • Re: I need some help from native speakers of Japanese
    ... Could you please provide gloss, i.e. word-for-word translation, for the ... I doubt if the meaning of Cincy's Japanese is what you had in mind. ... That has the "where" moved out of the main clause ... nat-ta-to omoimasu-ka ...
    (sci.lang.japan)
  • Re: I need some help from native speakers of Japanese
    ... Could you please provide gloss, i.e. word-for-word translation, ... I doubt if the meaning of Cincy's Japanese is what you had in mind. ... nat-ta-to omoimasu-ka ...
    (sci.lang.japan)