Re: I need some help from native speakers of Japanese


muchan wrote:
Ray wrote:

-- translation for Ray --
Probably this Ray is a linguist, who needs Japanese translation only to
compare the syntax with other languages. Having read the first post,
I thouth why should we translate into Japanese for one, who doesn't
understand (even won't study) Japanese, and so I ignored.
If he was linguist, I think he should have present a more realistic
example with clear meaning. (and so I'd keep ignoring the request...)
-------------------------


Since I don't know the language, how could I present a realistic
example with a clear meaning in the first place?


You know English, don't you? 8)


By "the language", I meant Japanese.



I just need you to construct some sentences as per the instructions
given, to verify a theoretical proposal.

Let me make a re-start on my question.

In English, Wh-questions are formed by fronting Wh-phrases to
sentence-initial position.
In Chinese and Japanese, such phrases stay in situ, i.e. they don't
move anywhere if one wants to form Wh-questions.

Now, there is a constraint in English Wh-question formation, to the
effect that an element, e.g. an NP or otherwise, in an adverbial
clause, be it causal, concessive or otherwise, cannot be moved out of
it. This captures the ungrammaticality of the following sentence:
(the letter "t" indicates the position which "where" occupied before
the movementt; the square brackets delimit the adverbial clause.)

1. *Where do you think that he was unhappy [because he saw his enemy
t]?


Well, I'm just curious what is your "t" at the end? You wrote it repeatedly.

(This is, for me, the reason to responding to this message...
others are just side-effect. Thank you.)

It is a standard abbreviation for "trace", a theoretical item which
indicates the position which "where" occupied before the movement.



On the other hand, an element can be moved out of a non-adverbial
clause:
(the square brackets indicate the clause)

2. What do you think [that he has eaten t]?

In Chinese, although Wh-phrases don't move as in English, questions
with the meaning of 1 are ungrammatical, whereas those of the 2nd type
are correct.

I want to know whether the situation of Japanese is like Chinese, i.e.
whether sentences like 1 are ungrammatical.




Now tell me, you say it's impossible to form a valid and correct sentense
in English and Chinese, with intended meaning of 1* ?

and with intended correspondng structure, of course.



Or is it possible, by restructuring, para-phrasing, chosing another word,
to form the question in one sentense?

It is possible to express the meaning conveyed by the incorrect English
example by using two shorter sentences, as in English.

Ray


(I think I already answered it myself in the post a few minutes ago.)



OK. I give you the answer:
I want to know whether the situation of Japanese is like Chinese, i.e.
whether sentences like 1 are ungrammatical.

I can't tell if it is like Chinese, since you didn't wrote Chinese sentense.
In Japanese, gramatical sentense can be made by forming
( .... the situation.... )-wa doko-desuka? (Where is/was it...)
( .... the situation.... )-wa doko-da-to omoimasuka? (Where do you think...)
What ever complicated the situation, the question is how to descrive
the complecated situation in ( )-wa part.


Here I confess. My first reading, your question,

"Where do you think that he was unhappy because he saw his enemy?"

The answer I got in my head at the first moment was:

I think... at his "stomack".


muchan

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: I need some help from native speakers of Japanese
    ... Probably this Ray is a linguist, who needs Japanese translation only to ... You know English, don't you? ... In Chinese and Japanese, such phrases stay in situ, i.e. they don't ... you say it's impossible to form a valid and correct sentense ...
    (sci.lang.japan)
  • Re: Subs vs. Dubs redux (was Re: For darkstar...)
    ... No regular Gringo could say their real Chinese names close. ... Not only would they have to get the pronunciations right ... this is similar to the Japanese mispronouncing English. ...
    (rec.arts.anime.misc)
  • Re: Subs vs. Dubs redux (was Re: For darkstar...)
    ... No regular Gringo could say their real Chinese names close. ... this is similar to the Japanese mispronouncing English. ... Just use their Western names or just use Western pronunciations. ...
    (rec.arts.anime.misc)
  • Re: New pronunciation of Bangalore
    ... "Türkiye" if I saw it in an English text. ... guess but it still wouldn't sound like English.) ... place in the world has to sound like Japanese and Chinese-speaking ... I recall being told--back in the late '60s--that ethnic Chinese in Thailand were required by law to take Thai names. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Esperantist lies (Re: Learning a language)
    ... It is possible to tell how a Chinese character exactly look like. ... My English teacher (teaching English in Polish school despite not being a ... but that's enough for Japanese. ...
    (sci.lang)
Loading