Re: I need some help from native speakers of Japanese

(posting from Google group. (with gmail address)

Ray wrote:

In retrospect, I've just found that muchan's supposed willingness to
help me was highly questionable. You guys can take a look at his very
first post in the thread as follows:

==========================================================
Probably this Ray is a linguist, who needs Japanese translation only to

compare the syntax with other languages. Having read the first post,
I thouth why should we translate into Japanese for one, who doesn't
understand (even won't study) Japanese, and so I ignored.
If he was linguist, I think he should have present a more realistic
example with clear meaning. (and so I'd keep ignoring the request...)
===========================================================


When you posted the first post, you didn't made clear that you were
asking this for linguistic study. I just guessed it. B.Ito and Cindy
didn't
realised it, and started to "help" you, without unerstnandsing the
nature
of question (I neither didn't understand why on earth you would asking
such question) and I saw they were having trouble, so I wrote this
post.

And I wrote in Japanese, I was addressing to those two. Then, I thought
it may be fair that you could read this, as a critic for your first
post, and\
as confirmation, that if my guess was correct or not. So I translated
it into
English.

So, it seems that he didn't address my question in the beginning not
because my question was unclear to him, but because I don't understand
and won't study Japanese.


It's not so. My first reaction "why should we?" was because you didn't
state
the purpose of the question. Still, you question to write the analyse
of sentense
seemed me too demanding.

Every request to translate English sentense to Japanese, we apploach
with
the same atitude to help. i have some principle, like I won't it for
tattoo, I won't
it for student homework, etc. Your query was not such, so I tried to
translate,
but seeing the origial sentense like "Where do you think he was
unhappy..."
I abandoned. It's impossible to tranlate a sentense without
understanding
the meaning.

And it was this morning (here in Europe) I read your reply to Sean,
that
"Meaning is irrelevant". You may think so for the "technical" nature of

lingusitic discussion. But ask any proffesional linguist or proffessor,
if they publish a book with example sentenses not meaningfull to the
native speakers. His work would be discredited.
Meaning is not irrevalent, if you want to be serious about any
translation.
(And if it's not so, why you have asked "from native speakers" from the
first place?)

If he had been willing to help me in the beginning and thought my
question to be unclear, he should have asked for clarification, rather
than saying things like "...doesn't understand (even won't study)
Japanese" as an excuse for delaying his help.


Why "I should have", and why I needed such excuse? You are not my
employer.
This is the begin of your problem. You were asking help in the thread,.
but you
never behaved as asking for help. Demanding or in your later phrasing,
giving "instruction" how should reply be written, was already showing
your
attitude. For me, this your attitude itself was the theme of this
entire thread.

If you could learn from critics, and wrote well thought, well behaved
question,
we on this newsgroups are enough good to help you further. You didn't
see this
point. That's what I said you were 16-years-old-esque.

Was his help, which came much later than Bart's, really sincere? I
doubt it.

II replyed to Bart, you didn't see? He thought you were asking to
native speakers
(from the subject) so he was relactant. Then he wrote some sentense he
assumed acceptable to native speakers, then its our routine to say yes,
or correct it.

I was still critisizing your original question, and still by replying
to Bart,
whished you could learn some lessons (not linguistic lesson, for sure,
but something you would need one day.) And so put some 'messages'
to you in the form of replying to Bart. This attitude was sincer.
I just regret that you didn't understood none of them. I had enough.

....and you didn't even noticed the smiley here and there and taking
bite to them...

One thing you would agree, is that you should have written the Subject:
" I need some help from (patient) Japanese linguists" , then we
wouldn't have
bothered with it from the first place.


muchan

.

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