Re: I need some help from native speakers of Japanese


"Ray" <raymondaliasapollyon@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:1146855961.987369.10840@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

B. Ito wrote:
"Ray" <raymondaliasapollyon@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1146852928.427953.212330@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> B. Ito wrote:
>> "Ray" <raymondaliasapollyon@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:1146846526.301851.203360@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > To B. Ito:
>> >
>> > I really appreciate your help, but I just cannot stand muchan's
>> > patronizing attitude.
>> > After all, this thread has made you learn something about English >> > and
>> > made me learn something about Japanese, even though the discussion
>> > ended up as childish bickering.
>> > That was a saving grace, wasn't it?
>> >
>> > Ray
>> ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー
>> If you say that, have you warmed up enough now.
>> As for me, I've been almost completed my first warm-up.
>>
>> Are you kind enough to check my summary just made after my own way
>> as per my post dated May 5th, 17:36 in addition to Bart's post for >> you.
>>
>> Please check if the following sentence structure scheme would be
>> something relevant to your research this time.
>>
>> Detailes are in my post referred to above.
>>
>> "Do you think..... " + " so and so because such and such....where
>> (when,how etc.)" ?
>
> To be more accurate, I think it is important to emphasize that "where"
> in my question is thought to be inside the because-clause.
>
> So I would give your word-string a pair of brackets as follows:
>
> Do you think..... " + " so and so [because such and such....where]
>
> This shows "where" is interpreted as related to the "because-clause".
>
>
>
>> In English you have to express in two sentences like,
>>
>> "So and so. But where(when, how etc) do you think such and such?"
>
> Yes. As the example I gave to you before shows, you might need to use
> several shorter sentences instead of one complicated sentence involving
> "because".
>
> E.g. Mary thinks so because she saw John somewhere. So where does she
> think [she saw John t]?
> (Note that the letter "t" indicates the position in which "where" is
> interpreted.)
>
> In English one cannot say *Where does Mary think so [because she saw
> John t]?
>
> Ray
ーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーー
Even it may be a simpler one for you, let's not bring out another new text
sentence.

Ok. Then just refer to the example I gave to you some time ago.

I'm not a linguist at all and have never read anybook or gramma written
by Chomsky. I think I know English grammar I've learned through Japanese.
So for me such English terms of grammar themselves are sometime great
barriers.

I see. Do you have an English-Japanese dictionary? If so, I think you
can find the terms in it. If not, please ask me what you don't
understand.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sure I do have E-J dictionaries.
However, you know even with dictionaries, something is very hard to
understand like the matters over here.

Now it has gotten already very far to fix all the matters clear, and may I ask
you if the following English expression would be acceptable to replace that
incorrect English,

2. *Where do you think that he was unhappy because he saw his enemy?


"Where do you think it is that he saw his enemy and became unhappy?"





Does Chomsky explain English grammar more complicated than what is called
"Indirect Question" like undermentioned, deleting "because clause" from you
new text.

I'm not quite sure of what you are asking. But I think Noam Chomsky's
theory is highly abstract, more complicated than what I have written
here and more opaque. And his theory is designed for human language in
general. That's why I needed to compare different languages.

You can ask Bart whether formal syntax is easy stuff.
----------------------------------------------------------

1. Where do you think that he has gone?

Does Chomsky allow to put "that"there as a conjunction?
Or it is intentionally written there to show the original clause from which
the "Where" comes, though this example English sentence is ungrammatical?





. "Does Mary think .......? + Where does Mary see John?"
= Where does Mary think she saw John?

"Where does Mary think she saw John?" asks about Mary's idea about the
location where she saw John.



Your topic here is that English expression more than this(with extra because
clause) is impossible, isn't it? And Chomsky also says it is impossible,
doesn't he?

I said that "where" cannot be moved out of a "because-clause" in
English.
Noam Chomsky and other syntacticians believe so, too.



And your conclusion here is that you need two sentences to express such
context like "Mary thinks so because she saw John somewhere. So where
does she think [she saw John t]?"but that one sentence would do in
Japanese, isn't it? One sentence in Chinese, too ?


Yes, you need two sentences to express that idea.

"Where does she think [she saw John t] is correct in English.
Its counterpart in Chinese is also correct.


Ray
----------------------------------------------------------------
The complicated sentence like your text 2 can't be composed into one English
sentence but one Japanese sentence could be composed (and Chinese sentence,
too?).

If this is your conclusion, one most important thing is cleared, isn't it?

------------------------
B. Ito


--------------------------------------
B. Ito
>>
>> In Japanese one sentence would do: ............................
>>
>> .......................................................................................................
>> B. Ito
>>

.

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