Re: Senryuu containing the word ?? (chimata)


"Phil Yff" <phil.yff@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:96xrhgglj7ow$.j34c86pquv0$.dlg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:43:51 -0700, Don Kirkman wrote:

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Phil Yff wrote in article
<odmn2xw4iai1.14ixcwxay2igm$.dlg@xxxxxxxxxx>:

We had a thread about senryuu (short humorous or quixotic verse) and a
thread where we ended up talking about the shades of meaning of 巷 (ちまた -
chimata) whose meanings range from street or section of town to society,
public, public opinion, etc. Just for the fun of it, I thought I’d try to
find senryuu that contained the word 巷 (ちまた - chimata) and came up with a
couple. Because of the tight, terse construction they are hard to
translate. For example, in the first one, there is no particle between
巷(chimata) and 行く (iku or yuku). I have taken chimata to be the subject
and interpreted it to mean society. However, I can see other
interpretations.

Test cases, feedback welcome - no metrication included

知られたくないことなぜか巷行く　（春日不善）
Somehow, without wanting to know anything, society goes on. (Fuzen Kasuga ?
given name first)

Why is it that things we don't want known end up on the streets?
Somehow the things we don't want known end up abroad.

I like both of these. They agree with Ueshiba-san who says that koto is
the subject of the sentence. I think I prefer using the term 'streets'
from the first of the two examples, but would change it to the structure of
the second example that I think better conveys the sense of nazeka.
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How about just "appear" or "dare to appear" instead of "end up"?

Or
Why should the things we don't want known be known on the streets?


Somehow the things we don't want known end up on the streets.

ハイヒール春の巷を闊歩する　（夢ー眠）
We strut a street of high-heeled Spring. (Ichimin Yume? given name first)

High heels stroll the springtime byways.
Gussied up they stroll the streets in springtime.

I like both of these. Again, they agree with Ueshiba-san's conclusion that
'high heels' is hte subject.

Thanks. I was hoping for some better translations than the ones I first
threw out.

Mata ato de,

Phil Yff
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Western fashions prevailed very fast as soon as the Meiji new era started.
High heels are not the articles displayed on the stages of fashion shows
any more. The are now right in from of you walking on the spring street.

How about counting the morae of 5-7-7?
Are they out of our mind in these two senryuus?

----------------------
B. Ito

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Senryuu containing the word =?big5?Q?=AB=D1?= (chimata)
    ... chimata) whose meanings range from street or section of town to society, ... public, public opinion, etc. ... I have taken chimata to be the subject ... and interpreted it to mean society. ...
    (sci.lang.japan)
  • Re: Senryuu containing the word ?? (chimata)
    ... chimata) whose meanings range from street or section of town to society, ... and interpreted it to mean society. ... Somehow the things we don't want known end up on the streets. ...
    (sci.lang.japan)
  • Senryuu containing the word =?big5?Q?=AB=D1?= (chimata)
    ... We had a thread about senryuu (short humorous or quixotic verse) and a ... I have taken chimata to be the subject ... and interpreted it to mean society. ... In the second Senryuu, the pronoun is ambiguous. ...
    (sci.lang.japan)
  • Re: Senryuu containing the word ?? (chimata)
    ... I have taken chimata to be the subject ... and interpreted it to mean society. ... High heels stroll the springtime byways. ... Gussied up they stroll the streets in springtime. ...
    (sci.lang.japan)