Re: Query: Origin of MADE.

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:10:35 -1000, Bart Mathias wrote:

This is probably off the wall, but まで
strikes me as identical to 間で
in all of its uses. Is it possible 間で
is the origin of the extent particle まで ?

No. It is an old word. What would で be in that case? (I.e., まで is ま
で all the way back, with nary a sign of a まにて.)

I think you've shed some light on something I looked up several years ago.
When I was reading Akagawa Jiro's 雪に消えた悪魔, the title of the second chapter
was 個室にて. I had recalled seeing -にて before but the meaning had always been
perfectly apparent from the context so I had never looked it up. However,
in this instance, being a chapter heading, there was as yet no context. In
fact, until you got into the chapter, you didn't know anything about the
private room referred to in the chapter title.

So, I decided to look it up. I checked several dictionaries and they all
simply and abruptly referred me to the particle で without any explanation.
Since that time, I have come across -にて quite a few times and this served
to reinforce the meaning I had learned the first time I looked it up. If I
understand the implication of what you are saying, -にて is an older form of
the modern particle で.

Phil Yff
.