Re: Yojimbo

It seems to me I heard somewhere that John R. Yamamoto-Wilson wrote in
article <5k3jegF20mn6U1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

Don Kirkman wrote:

While I would say "umbrella" I would never say "umbearable"*.

You mean you *think* you wouldn't. The point is that, even if, like me,
you say "unbearable", with a conscious awareness of making an "n" sound
it actually registers on phonologists' speech analysis equipment as "m".

Try recording yourself saying the words "umbrella" and "unbearable" and
cut the tape just after the "b".

I don't need to record myself. I can distinguish between a dental and a
bilabial consonant. YMMV?

See if you or any of your friends can
predict whether you have just heard "umb-" or "unb-". Unless you mark it
in some non-standard way, such as putting an extra syllable in and
saying something like "unnabearable" you will not be able to.

And yet I do (echoing the old old canard that a bumblebee's physics
preclude it from being able to fly but, not knowing this, the bee goes
ahead flying anyway).

To test this, make a prolonged "n" sound, then, without stopping, close
your lips and make an "m" sound.

As in "Demmark"? You might recall that I said in fact there is a slight
pause between the n- and the following bilabial, so it is NOT without
stopping. Therein lies part of the difference, I suspect.

Another related phenomenon is the sound "o" as in "no". Phonologically,
it an "u" sound (as in "flu" or "gnu") preceded by a shwa. Many native
speakers cringe at the idea that they are actually saying "n?u".

Is this true for Japanese "no" or other non-English languages? Is it
really true even for English (although it is not closely related to your
original n-bilabial issue)? Are you perhaps talking about the u-glide
following a long "o" in English, making it almost a diphthong, whereas
Japanese has only the pure "o"?
--
Don Kirkman
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: ietenai, mietenai
    ... native speaker of Japanese or English, but I can't imagine any situation ... where one would saying something like "I am being able to say something" ...
    (sci.lang.japan)
  • Re: Kaiser Permanente
    ... I'm saying that in this case, they happen to have the same different ... meanings. ... $B$b<N$F$?$i!)(B in Japanese, why isn't it the same in English? ...
    (sci.lang.japan)
  • Re: Kaiser Permanente
    ... >>translations of each other? ... > I'm saying that in this case, they happen to have the same different ... > $B$b<N$F$?$i!)(B in Japanese, why isn't it the same in English? ...
    (sci.lang.japan)
  • Re: Origin of hoomu
    ... it's time for you to push your nutty idea again.) ... thing in English!" ... (except that he'd be saying it in Japanese). ...
    (sci.lang.japan)
  • We need Language Exchange Partners, we can teach you Japanese
    ... We need Language Exchange Partners, we can teach you Japanese ... Imyu, 30 years old, Japan ... I want to learn: English, ...
    (soc.culture.japan)