Re: Translating by Feel

Tad Perry wrote:
"Tad Perry" <tadperry@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:6cidnYR9Z9uM_AXanZ2dnUVZ_ommnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The truth is that I'd like to drop in here be very presumptuous.

I'd like to teach others some of what I know about Japanese and
translation.
I feel that I have something to offer in this regard. I don't mean to
challenge anyone else for any kind of "who knows more" type of crown, but
just to help make Usenet what it should be: a place for the free exchange
of
hopefully useful information.

When translating or interpreting Japanese into English (and vice versa),
one
quickly recognizes that it's best not to translate the words one is
hearing,
but to use those words that target language speakers use in the same
situation. In other words, word choice should be less dependent on the
source language and more dependent on the situation and the context.

Here is an example, with context. Say you've been working on a project and
turned in the first part. Your superior tells you:

引き続きお願いいたします。

(That should go through, but in case it doesn't that was: "Hikitsuzuki
onegai itashimasu.")


I would think the most likely word from tat superior would be:
　　この調子で続けてくれ／ください
(That should go through, but in case it doesn't that was:
　　kono chooshi-de tsudzukete-kure/kudasai

What is the most natural translation of this statement?


"Please go on this way." I suppose. (BIANANSE)


Okay, so we're talking about translating by feel. A lot of times people get
caught up in the word-for-word method of translation. In the early years of
my career, Japanese people didn't like it when I would sometimes translate a
word like 設定（する） (settei-suru) as "set" in one instance, "specify" in
another, "select" in a third, "configure" in a forth, and so on.


In most case, about computer industry, the translation goes rather direction
of English to Japanese. There are surely some Japanese originated softwere
introduced to the world, but there are many times more case that the software
or documentation written in other language but Japanese is translated into
Japanese...

and I'm on one of such project, and... yes. I end up using the word "設定"
for various English words... another word often just doesn't sound right.

Often Japanese companies and translation agencies provide a glossary and
they want you to use the word "set." Period. They don't want you to deviate.
They want what they call 統一　(touitsu), which is can itself be many things
depending on context, but in this context, the closest gloss is almost a
toss-up between "standardization" and "consistency," meaning that once you
used a word for something, stick with that word.

This rigidity was especially true in the past. The Japanese professionals
I've known don't *want* to get it wrong, but they also know that not even
all native English speakers necessarily explicitly know English grammar.
I've always been good at that fortunately. I know it back and forth,
upside-down, and sideways. I even know how to use a semi-colon; I prove it
all the time.

The benefit is that it gives me the ability to explain to my Japanese
comrades why certain unexpected things are so, and they appreciate the
explanation.

Time has definitely changed this field and I'm proud to say that I helped
change it. Look at a Citizen watch manual from 10 years ago for instance. It
makes no sense! It will be goobledy-gook. Look at one now and it's like
night and day. Now manuals look a lot more like the way I was translating
them in the beginning--back when there was resistance. But that resistance
has slowly broken down.

I don't mean to say that I am personally responsible for this. No, not at
all. I was one of perhaps a few hundred gaijin that descended on Japan at
about the same time, and we all, collectively, had a big impact on how our
Japanese friends now think about English.

So what did you come up with for 引き続きお願いいたします (hikitsuzuki
onegai itashimasu), anyway?


Please keep going.

Let's look at the literal meaning (which you might be tempted to try to
render into English). It means, "please continue as you have." Essentially,
to continue one's good efforts. Well, it seems to me that the best choice
is: "Keep up the good work."


You set the context that the word is said by superior (and I oppsed, the boss
would say it differently), your choice of 引き続きお願いいたします is more likely
to be used to address customer. in this case, "Keep up the good work" doesn't
sound good.

It's what we say all the time, in that exact situation, but notice that the
Japanese didn't say anything about "good work." That part was just implied.


I feel the inverse. You have "Keep up the good work" in your head, and made
your guess what would be the most likely Japanese the boss in the situation
says... (just reading your mind...)

In psychology, there's a concept called "functional fixedness" that is
playing a role here. First, when you look at some Japanese that you're not
familiar with, you decode it from it's pieces. You've then come to
understand it from the Japanese side of the equation. Now it's tempting to
just use their method of expression and word choices in English as well, but
it would be a mistake. Sometimes not a big one, but at least a minor one.

For instance, you could be translating the manual that explains the features
of a Windows-based GUI application and how to use it to do things. You might
run across a line that is instructing the reader to "OKボタンを選択する”　
(OK botan wo sentaku-suru).

A lot of people will just go ahead and translate it as "Select the OK
button."

It's grammatical. Everyone can understand it. But do English software
manuals ever say that?

No, they don't.

9 times out of 10, they read: "Click OK."


Sometimes 選択する may not involve Clicking... sure, in your situation,
if it's button, it's likely to be clocked. :)

The reason people get stuck is the functional fixedness I mentioned. Once
you see that word 選択　(sentaku), it's hard rid it from your mind and once
you start thinking in　terms of "select," it's hard to see　it any other
way, and once you've seen the word "button," it's really hard to think of
anything that doesn't　include it.

I think this idea that one should consider carefully what we say in the same
situation,　rather than trying to answer the question "What are the words
that most match the Japanese?" is an important realization for all　learners
of Japanese, or any foreign language for that matter.

Beginners often don't comprehend that "onegai-itashimasu" is one kind of
"please,"　while "kudasai" is a　totally different kind of "please." In
fact, the first is far more like "thanks," as in "thanks in advance." So　
when learning Japanese, you shouldn't really try translating your English
though into Japanese. You　should instead be trying to learn what Japanese
people say in that situation.

It's two different things.

Perhaps if I think of more, I'll write more, but for now, this is something
I wanted to bring to the forefront and talk about.

tvp



Good translation is always trying to convay the meaning/feeling into targetting
language. But in some case, the exact wording or syntax is important, that if
paraphrased sentense can introduce ambigiuty, the odd but exact translation is
preferred. So, the translation of film (subtext) and translation of patent, or
low, or definition of programing language, etc, chose different level of
liberal/litteral translation.

muchan
.