Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical

From: Aaron J. Dinkin (dinkin_at_babel.ling.upenn.edu)
Date: 06/12/04 

Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 15:13:37 +0000 (UTC)

On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:03:52 GMT, Peter T. Daniels <grammatim@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> Aaron J. Dinkin wrote:
>
>> "John" and "Jon" aren't variant spellings of the same name, so that can't
>> be a necessary criterion for inclusion on your list.
>
> Of course they are. And pronounced the same.

No, they're simply not. Not only do they have completely different
etymologies, but "Jon" is a nickname for "Jonathan", and "John" is a name
in its own right.

Well, they are on the comparatively rare occasions that someone is called
"John" as a nickname for "Johnathan", the latter of which is a variant
spelling for "Jonathan". But most of the time they're just different names
that are pronounced the same.

>> Furthermore, variant spellings of the same name are not necessarily
>> pronounced the same, either. ("Morris" and "Maurice" are variant spellings
>> of the same name.) So pointing to a different version of the same name
>> does not automatically indicate anything about the proper pronunciation of
>> the version at hand.
>
> "Maurice" has two pronunciations, one of which (more common in Britland,
> where they seem afraid to use French-like pronunciations of any French
> word?) is the same as the pronunciation of "Morris."

This is true. But you will observe that I said "Morris" and "Maurice" are
not necessarily pronounced the same, which is the case.

>> But what I am trying to ever-so-subtly indicate to you is that it's a bad
>> idea, especially in a.u.e but probably in sci.lang as well, to assume that
>> other speakers of English have a phonology that is isomorphic to yours. I
>> assure you that I pronounce "Don" and "Dawn" exactly the same; and that I
>> pronounce "Tanya" (with "ah" as in "father") and "Tonya" (with "o" as in
>> "bother") differently.
>
> I have already bitched about this idiotic thread having been crossposted
> to sci.lang in the first place; and you have my utmost sympathy for
> being a cot/caught mergerer.
>
> "Father" and "bother" are, of course, identical but for the initial
> consonant.

Well, in that case, I extend to you my deepest condolence not only for
being a "(f)ather"/"(b)other" mergerer but also for not even knowing what
mergers you have.

I am beginning to have a sneaky suspicion I may be being trolled, and feel
like the courteous thing to do would be to reciprocate; does anyone have
an elementarily inaccurate misstatement that that I could use about, say,
Aramaic writing systems, or something like that?

> And no one would know how to spell Tonya Harding's name just from
> hearing her,

True.

> or anyone else,

False.

> say it.

That proves that she has the father/bother merger, and that you do; but
referring to "Tonya" to try to explain to father/bother non-mergerers how
to pronounce "Tanya" (which is what you were doing) is not likely to be
successful.

-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom

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