Re: Learning a language

From: LEE Sau Dan (danlee_at_informatik.uni-freiburg.de)
Date: 06/30/04 

Date: 30 Jun 2004 22:07:15 +0200

>>>>> "Rex" == Rex F May <rex.may@comcast.net> writes:

    Rex> Maybe, but I find it hard to believe they perceive it that
    Rex> way
>> Why don't you find it hard for English speakers to perceive a
>> French "r" as an (English) "r", not an "h"?
>>
    Rex> Because, as an English speaker, I do indeed perceive it as an
    Rex> 'r.'

To _me_, "Paris" sounds more like "bahi".

    Rex> They're going to have a problem. To my ear, Japanese 'r' is
    Rex> indeed intermediate between English r and l.
>> To me, it sounds the same as an "l". Indeed, most (if not
>> all) Sino-Japanese words which are pronounced with an initial
>> "l" in Mandarin or Cantonese are pronounced in Japanese with an
>> initial "r" -- the sound that they claim is an "r" and sound to
>> me an "l".
>>
    Rex> Do they claim it as an 'r'?

Yes. The Japanese who designed the romanization scheme think it's
closer to "r" (which "r"? I don't know) than "l". So, they chose
"r".

    Rex> Or is it, like the Mandarin 'r', just an orthographical
    Rex> convention?

Ask the Japanese.

    Rex> So, among the big languages, at least Chinese, Hindi, Arabic
    Rex> and all the European languages make the distinction.
>>>>> No. That's untrue. Mandarin makes a completely different
>>>>> distinction.
    Rex> It makes a distinction between an 'l' and a rhotic, which is
    Rex> my point.
>> But that's insufficient to consider it an "r". Mandarin makes
>> a distinction between "l" and other rhotics, too. Why don't
>> you consider those also "r"?

    Rex> And what would those be? Mandarin has rhotics other than
    Rex> 'r'?

"zh", "ch" and "sh" in Pinyin all refer to retroflex sounds. 

-- 
Lee Sau Dan                     +Z05biGVm-                          ~{@nJX6X~}
E-mail: danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Learning a language
    ... > Rex> would be a lot closer. ... > Why don't you find it hard for English speakers to perceive a French ... Mandarin has rhotics other than 'r'? ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Learning a language
    ... Rex> somewhat a stretch, but I don't have the 'dz' combination in ... Rex> cegli), meaning 'letter'. ... The sxi/li/gxi distinction is so superfluous, ... we have a plural marker (in a singular vs. plural system), ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Learning a language
    ... A mistake. ... > Rex> I wouldn't dream of it. ... > Rex> and all the European languages make the distinction. ... > Rex> close to your Mandarin 'r'. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Learning a language
    ... Rex> would be a lot closer. ... >> a mistake. ... Mandarin or Cantonese are pronounced in Japanese with an initial "r" ... Rex> and all the European languages make the distinction. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Learning a language
    ... A mistake. ... Rex> and all the European languages make the distinction. ... Rex> close to your Mandarin 'r'. ...
    (sci.lang)
Quantcast