Re: The Phaistos Disk, side A, according to Fischer

From: grapheus (grapheus_at_www.com)
Date: 07/08/04 

Date: 8 Jul 2004 15:58:12 -0700

GOOD REMARKS of yours, but flawed by some misunderstanding of J.F.'s
work !..
See hereafter.

qakare@hotmail.com (Qakare) wrote in message news:<dad05270.0407080822.bb92eb7@posting.google.com>...
> Jacques Guy <jguy@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message news:<40ED57B5.1526@alphalink.com.au>...
> > Qakare wrote:
> >
> > > 100%! And here comes the explanation:
> > >
> > > Professor Hempl [snip]
> >
> > Splendid stuff!
> > SNIP (valueless remark from J.G.)
> >
> As more you know about the used language, it would be harder to found
> a good looking translation. The main problem is that nobody knows the
> greek language Hempl, Fischer, Stawell or Faucounau are using. Hempl
> for instance observes a remarkable agreement with classical Greek, but
> on the other hand he explains differences with a time gap to classical
> Greek with hundreds of years. This is a contradiction for me!

I'm sorry to say that J.F. has used a "Proto-Ionic" dialect, i.e. a
dialect which is HALF-THE-WAY between "Common Greek" (as reconstructed
by linguists) and (historical) Ionic. ALL the words he found VERIFY
this rule. For instance : "Child" is in "Common Greek" *pawid- , in
Ionic <paīs> , in the Phaistos Disk <pajis> with *W > Y, as expected.

>
> A other in my eyes interesting point is, that Hempl tells us "When "
> he " cleared up about twenty-five characters, further progress was
> slow and difficult ... But when " he " had thirty-five, the tide
> turned." This is because at the end comes the signs used only in one
> or two words. Obviously it is much easier to guess a value there. But
> this words must fit into the text. To make the words fit, usually more
> complex values are used for this signs. So if a decipherment is made
> using Hempls method of guessing it can be found out by looking for the
> signs only used one or two times. If this sign has more complex values
> then others this is a proof that the decipherment is made by Hempls
> way.

I don't agree. It's A NORMAL THING that "complex values" are RARER
than SIMPLE values. This is true, for instance, with Linear B, with
the rare complex values it has, like DWE or PTE.
Finding "Complex Values" overrepresented in the RARE SIGNS is
therefore a NORMAL THING, not the "proof that the decipherment has
been made by Hempl's way" !...
So, why your
> Surprisingly ?....

> this behaviour can be demonstrated for Faucounaus
> decipherment. In the group of complex signs the rare signs are
> overrepresented: sign 30 <kri> (1 Occurrence), sign 44 <tmae> (1
> Occurrence), sign 11 <pyo> (1 Occurrence), sign 15 <skae> (1
> Occurrence), sign 43 <klae> (1 Occurrence), sign 28 <ske> (2
> Occurrences, but in the same word), sign 03 <sto> (2 Occurrences, but
> in the same word), sign 14 <pro> (Occurrence in two different words).
> Only three "complex" signs are used more often: The signs 36 <ksi>(4
> times), 39 <kro/u> (4 times) and 18 <syo/u> (12 times). (see J.
> Faucounau, Le Dechiffrement du Disque de Phaistos, p. 62).

CORRECT. But, he wrote a)- that KSI could be just a "SI-syllable"
b)- that SYO was the GENITIVE-ENDING, so that its frequency is not
surprising. c)- as for KRO, it's a very frequent syllable IN GREEK.
So that, finding it 4 times is neither a surprise.

> Surprisingly, because this result doesn't fit with Faucounaus
> statement that he used Akrophonie to found the values for the signs!

This is a MISUNDERSTANDING of yours concerning the method J.F. used.
He said that he STARTED using at 100% STATISTICAL METHODS, but that
AFTER FINDING Acrophony "on the way", he COMBINED Statistical
considerations AND acrophony... You cannot say, therefore, that he
has "used Akrophony to find the values of the signs"... The best
evidence that he DID'N'T USE akrophony alone is in the SURPRISING
VALUES of the "ship" (NOT <naūs> as expected !) , of the "Bow" (NOT
<toxon>, but <bios> !) , of the "horn" (NOT <keras> as expected), etc.

Regards
grapheus

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