Re: -ire words

From: Aaron J. Dinkin (dinkin_at_babel.ling.upenn.edu)
Date: 07/17/04 

Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 00:57:59 +0000 (UTC)

On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 00:30:25 GMT, Peter T. Daniels <grammatim@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> Aaron J. Dinkin wrote:
>
>> Didn't someone in a.u.e and sci.lang propose this phonemic constrast for
>> his own accent several weeks ago, on the basis of "writer" and "rider"
>> (rather than have to interpret [*] as /t/ in one word and /d/ in the
>> other).
>
> Can you identify your two nuclei with those two nuclei?

Phonetically, definitely. Phonemically - I guess so. My phonemic
intuition regards "writer" and "rider" as having the same nucleus, but it
also regards "fire" and "wire" as having the same nucleus, so who knows?

Regarding /ay/ and /Vy/ as separate phonemes would allow me to explain my
pronunciation of "spider" [spVj*R] (not rhyming with "cider") without
having to attribute the flap in "spider" to /t/.

>> > Can you fit it into the Smith-Trager 36 syllabic nuclei?
>>
>> I guess so. It'd be "wire" /wayr/ and "fire" /fVyr/, where /V/ denotes
>> the wedge. That fits, right? But I'm not happy with it.
>
> Nope, no wedge in Smith-Trager. You can have either shwa or barred-i.

Feh. Well, if I have to call the vowel in "cut" schwa, I might just as
well call the nucleus of "fire" /@y/.

But I have no desire to call the vowel in "cut" schwa.

> And, keep the courage of your convictions -- your examples are /tayr/
> and /t yr/ (but which is which?).

That's why I didn't use that example.

But "[spare] tire" is /tVyr/ and "tire[d]" is /tayr/.

Or I guess /tVyR/ and /tayR/ - they each feel like two syllables to me.

-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom