Re: What's the different between /tS/ as one phoneme and as two?

From: Nathan Sanders (nsanders.DIE.SPAM_at_wso.williams.edu)
Date: 07/19/04 

Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:33:42 GMT

In article <kv1of0163skghknnj7hof5n1ejb13bj8dh@4ax.com>,
 Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Essentially, an English /b/ at the beginning of a word is acoustically
> > similar to a French /p/ at the beginning of a word.
>
> But that's true for an English /p/, too.

No, it's not.

> _How_ similar is it? Is a
> French /p/ acoustically closer to an English /b/ or an English /p/, and
> why?

In word-initial position, French /p/ is basically the same thing as an
English /b/. Both are voiceless during closure, with no aspiration
after the release burst.

> So why does this sound like the most obvious difference between /p/ and
> /b/? And why does this difference appear to be the same for both the
> French and English consonants?

Because you aren't hearing correctly? Because you're not looking at
actual phonetic data, but relying on personal beliefs instead of
reality? Because you haven't taken a course in phonetics?

I can't really answer for you. All I can tell you is that French /p/
at the beginning of words is acoustically the same as an English /b/
at the beginning of words. Whether you choose to believe it or not,
whether you think you hear it or not, doesn't really matter; it is
simply true.

> > But aspiration is irrelevant for final /p/ and /b/, and sometimes
> > relevant for medial /p/ and /b/ (depends on stress and syllable
> > structure).
>
> So aspiration can't be the key distinguishing feature. What is, then?

English /p/ and /b/ aren't universally distinguished by a single
acoustic feature across all environments. Sometimes it's aspiration,
sometimes it's voicing, sometimes it's glottalization. This is why
phonological generalizations are handy.

Nathan 

-- 
Nathan Sanders
Linguistics Program       nsanders@wso.williams.edu                           
Williams College          http://wso.williams.edu/~nsanders
Williamstown, MA 01267

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