Re: Long vs. short vowels in English

From: Aki Moilanen (akmoilan_at_paju.oulu.fi)
Date: 07/20/04 

Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 10:28:07 +0000 (UTC)

Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not good at distinguishing the lengths of vowels. Since vowel
> length isn't phonemic in English, I'm debating whether or not to try to
> mark it at all. I guess I could just mark the vowels that are
> "supposed" to be long, whether they sound longer or not, but that seems
> very contrived.

You have difficulties deciding between /I/ and /i:/? That seems
strange. Don't be confused by the <:>, it is just for indicating that
the two i-like sounds are (generally) of different duration.

It is common to transcribe the two phonemes as /I/ and /i:/, and at
least in broad transcriptions, /I:/ or /i/ would not be used. Whether
you use the length marker is not too important, but it is the more
common way in dictionaries, at least in Europe. I personally include
it.

> > ... /intrV,stEd/ ...

> Where's the error?

I find /V/ quite strange here. Also the first symbol should be <I>.
(Actually, that might be a typo of mine, but can't check it now.)

> > /mV'Si:n/

> Where's the error? This is how I say the words (I think).

Again I would certainly expect /@/. The shwa has a lot of variation
in terms of formants, and may approach a [V]-like sound, but I don't
think it quite reaches it. And phonemically, it's not quite the phoneme
/V/ in this particular word.

> Well, by definition, it _should_ be relevant, because diphthongs that
> are phonemic are diphthongs you must be able to pronounce correctly in
> order to be understood. The other diphthongs you don't have to worry
> much about because you may be able to get away with replacing them with
> monophthongs with no problem.

I'm not convinced this is the way to go. Why not get them all
'right' from the beginning? As I said, it wasn't relevant whether the
diphthongs were phonemic or not because we learned to say them all as
diphthongs at the same time. And diphthongs they are in most varieties
of English, not monophthongs.

Aki Moilanen

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