Re: Did the Trojan war really happen the way Homer said it did?

From: Franz Gnaedinger (frgn_at_bluemail.ch)
Date: 07/24/04 

Date: 24 Jul 2004 00:42:33 -0700

frgn@bluemail.ch (Franz Gnaedinger) wrote in message news:<2bf25455.0407222254.30c25b78@posting.google.com>...

The first sign on field seven on the Tiryns side of the Phaistos
Disk, Evans 12, Ohlenroth O (omikron), has been explained before.
Then follows a new sign, Evans 26, Ohlenroth I (iota), a horn:

   http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF

Further horns mark the begin of field 10, field 13, and field 16,
each time with a thorn, and each word is the same:

   field 10 13 16 I_ S O S = equal, similar (...)

The thorn (here horizontal, on the disk in oblique position)
makes that word important, and really, it goes along with
Derk Ohlenroth's decipherment of the Tiryns spiral (provisional
English translation by me, FG):

   Zeus is the shining one also when Zeus is the Lycaion one
   to whose women (to the ones made pregnant by him) children
   are born his equal; and it Tiryns is a god-like town, then
   also I, eponymous Tiryns, am the shining one's equal

Here we have the following "equations":

   shining (Argivian) Zeus --- Lycaion Zeus

   Zeus --- his children

   god-like (shing white?) Tiryns --- shining Zeus

   the shining one (Zeus) --- his son eponymous Tiryns

I assume that eponymous Tiryns came from Lycosoura, struggled
to be accepted as well as a native king from the Argolis itself,
built a shining white town (downtown Tiryns is still unexcavated,
we may expect some surprises there), adopted its name Tiryns
for himself as king (eponymous Tiryns), and compared himself
via the shining white "god-like" town with the shining one (Zeus).

Now consider how well a horn can express the idea of equality
and similarity. Bulls, rams and goats have pairs of horns that
are symmetrical and in most respects equal. One horn for Argivian
Zeus, one horn for Lycaion Zeus. One horn for god-like Tiryns,
one horn for eponymous Tiryns. One horn for the shining one (Zeus),
one horn for his son eponymous Tiryns.

That is no less ingenious a sign of equality and similarity
than our modern symbol of equality, which is due to Recorde
(Whitstone of witte, London 1557) who says: "I will sette as
I doe often in worke vse, a paire of paralleles, or Gemowe
lines of one lengthe, thus: ======, bicause noe .2. thynges,
can be moare equalle."

Next times: Evans 31 vertical in field 8

Regards Franz Gnaedinger

> Richard Herring: what show do you mean? Kismet? is that a movie?
> I vaguely remember having read something about it, but I didn't
> see the movie. Kismet means fate? Fate, I believe, was a main
> concern of Homer, next to his concern for the unification of
> Hellas. I find a similar, say, productive contradiction both
> in Homer and in Richard Dawkins. On the one hand, our lives and
> fates are ruled and determined by a pantheon of powerful deities;
> on the other hand we shouldn't always blame the gods and instead
> take on our responsabilities. On the one hand we are slaves of
> our selfish genes, on the other hand we should free ourselves
> from their tyranny ... I wonder why Richard Dawkins, who is
> fighting religion, doesn't see the obvious consequence of his
> work, namely that religion may be an extended phenotype of
> his very genes (not his personal genes, of course, but his
> notion of genes). More in November or somewheres, when I am
> done with the signs on the Phaistos Disk. You may chime in
> by then and inform us about Kismet.
>
> ---
>
> The fourth field on the Tiryns side of the Phaistos Disk
> repeats the first one: Evans 38 3 10 = Ohlenroth S EY R.
>
> The fifth field begins with a one-sign-word, Evans 35 =
> Ohlenroth AI; from sparkling wine, as explained before.
> Evans 35 in this field has a thorn that may here indicate
> a single word, AI, and a crucial one, as it says that Zeus
> is the shining one ALSO when Zeus is the Lycaion one.
>
> The next sign, Evans 19, Ohlenroth Y, has, I believe,
> several meanings. Here it may refer to a river joining
> another one, and come from words such as hygros, hydraino,
> hydor, which begin with an aspirated ypsilon and refer to
> water each. Another and essential meaning of Evans 19 shall
> be explained when we move on to field eight.
>
> The last sign in the fifth field, Evans 23, Ohlenroth L,
> a pillar, may come from lithos = stone, rock, marble, gem,
> and refer to a shrine on Mount Lycaion that was made of
> more durable stone.
>
> Here the field ends, cutting off YL from the following
> KIOS, which belong together as YLKIOS = Lycaion (Zeus).
> Why that separation? It makes the next field start with
> KI, a meaningful combination that refers both to Zeus
> descending from peak Diaphorti/Elias, and eponymous Tiryns
> from the hill of Tiryns, as explained before.
>
> The remaining signs in field five, Evans 12 2, Ohlenroth OS,
> have been explained in the previous message.
>
>
> Next time: the most interesting field seven
>
> Regards Franz Gnaedinger
>
>
> > Having identified Evans 27 with the Golden Fleece, I go on
> > with Evans 12 2.
> >
> > Derk Ohlenroth realized what other scholar could have noted
> > as well: the combination Evans 12 2 occurs twelve times at
> > the end of a field. What if they represent the frequent Greek
> > ending -os? The rest was easy for him.
> >
> > Evans 12 is a circle with a dot in the center and six dots
> > along the margin. A round shield comes to mind. However, as
> > far as we know until now, there have been no round shields
> > during the Middle Helladic period of time, and so we have
> > to look out for another meaning. Similar signs appear on
> > the staring plaster head from Mycenae, and may suggest a
> > defensive alliance called something like the Watchful Eye
> > of Argolis, or simply Argos Eye:
> >
> > http://www.seshat.ch/home/tirynsa.JPG
> > http://www.seshat.ch/home/tirynsar.GIF
> >
> > The omikron would refer to hortikon (beginning with an
> > aspirated omikron) = oath, vow, alliance, witness of an oath,
> > avenger of a (broken?) oath. The Tiryns side of the Phaistos
> > Disk can itself be regarded as an Argos Eye, with an Argos
> > Eye next to the central rosette, and seven about equally
> > interspaced Argos Eyes along the margin.
> >
> > Evans 2, a male head with an "Irokese" hairdo, reminding
> > of a soldier and a guardian, has the phonetic value S
> > according to Derk Ohlenroth. The sigma may come from skopia
> > = I look around, watch out, observe; from skopia = peeking
> > (here a noun, if there is such a noun in English), lookout,
> > observation point, hillock; from skopiazo = I guard, peek;
> > and from skopios = scout, lookout, guardian ... See how many
> > soldiers guard Tiryns and especially the entrance
> >
> > http://www.seshat.ch/home/tirynsas.GIF
> >
> > while a single guardian observes the entrance of Elaia's grove
> > at Phigalia:
> >
> > http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF
> >
> > Regards Franz Gnaedinger
> >
> >
> > > Now for the announced surprise that comes with Evans 27
> > > in the shape of a hide, phonetic value N according to Derk
> > > Ohlenroth, appearing twice in the third field on the Tiryns
> > > side of the Phaistos Disk, PH A AI N N O S = shining.
> > >
> > > The ny may come from nakae = fleece, as in Odyssey XIV 530:
> > > nakaen ... aigos, the fleece of a goat.
> > >
> > > In Hagia Triada near Phaistos have been found copper ingots
> > > in the shape of ox-hides, weighing some 29 kilograms each.
> > > What if Evans 27 represents an ingot?
> > >
> > > You may remember my assumption that the Phaistos Disk is
> > > the clay copy of a pair of gold disks worn on the shoulders
> > > by eponymous Tiryns and his successors. Evans 27 as ingot
> > > on a gold disk would represent a gold ingot, and, as nakae
> > > a golden fleece.
> > >
> > > Note also that the two hides or fleeces of the third field
> > > are turned upside down, so as to lie on imaginary rays
> > > going out from the central rosette or flower or sun, thus
> > > enhancing the word phaainnos / phaennos / shining.
> > >
> > > http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF
> > >
> > > May Evans 27 on a gold disk have represented the famous
> > > Golden Fleece? which was retrieved by Jason, leader of the
> > > Argonauts, from king Aeetes in Colchis on the eastern shore
> > > of the Black Sea?
> > >
> > > The tiles in the Early Helladic House of Tiles at Lerna
> > > came from Asia Minor. The Middle Helladic Argonauts may
> > > have been from Argos in the Argolis. Sailing trips to
> > > the Black Sea would have been risky by then, but not
> > > really impossible - as the Apollo missions were highly
> > > daring but not impossible. (35 years ago Neil Armstrong
> > > set foot on the moon. I remember that day well, spending
> > > a week at Celerina in the Swiss Alps, suposedly for learning
> > > but mostly clinging to a radio ...)
> > >
> > > The historical core of the Argonautica would then be
> > > sailing missions to remote shores, and the Golden Fleece
> > > a symbol for gold ingots that may have been purchased
> > > even along the shores of the Black Sea (gold from the
> > > Caucasus and norhtern Anatolia).
> > >
> > > You may remember my interpretation of beautiful Helen
> > > of the white arms as a symbol of tin (early on in this
> > > thread, to be retrieved via Goolge). Now this kind of
> > > symbolism would have had a precursor in Jason's Golden
> > > Fleece.
> > >
> > >
> > > Next time: Evans 12 and 2
> > >
> > > Regards Franz Gnaedinger

Relevant Pages
Quantcast