Re: Did the Trojan war really happen the way Homer said it did?

From: Franz Gnaedinger (frgn_at_bluemail.ch)
Date: 07/29/04 

Date: 29 Jul 2004 00:28:46 -0700

frgn@bluemail.ch (Franz Gnaedinger) wrote in message news:<2bf25455.0407272258.445f4a57@posting.google.com>...

Field 8 on the Tiryns side of the Phaistos Disk contains
four signs, Evans 19 17 18 6, Ohlenroth Y OY S A, out of
kyousans, meaning the wives or literally the ones made
pregnant by Zeus:

   http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF

Why are the four signs given separately? They represent,
I believe, the former civilization of the Goddess, a memory
of which might have survived in Elaia's grove at Phigalia
near Lycosoura, where, as I suppose, eponymous Tiryns came
from. Several clay objects of the Vinca time might have been
kept in the shrine of the Arcadian Elaia Black Demeter Melaina,
bearing inscriptions that were no longer readable but may
nevertheless have conveyed an idea of the former religious
believes.

Evans 19, Ohlenroth Y (ypsilon), is a frequent Vinca sign
representing the female Y, phonetic value NAE in the Old
European Script, but here coincidentally an Y that may
refer to hypokyomai = to get pregnant (hypokyomai begins
with an aspirated ypsilon).

Evans 17, Ohlenroth OY (diphtong omikron ypsilon) may show
a handle and refer to ous = ear, handle ... It would be
the handle of a jug, a vessel, a basket, which took up
the various products of the early agrarian societies ruled
by the Goddess of Old Europe.

Evans 18, Ohlenroth S (sigma), shows the most frequent sign
in the Vinca script, namely an angle, here practically a right
angle. The phonetic value in Old European was KE, I believe.
This value was forgotten, while the new value on the Phaistos
Disk, an S, may refer to sanis = ... scaffold ...; or to saekos
= enclosure, stable, sanctuary, shrine ...; or to skaenae = tent,
hut, house, garden, temple ... So the angle would be a reference
and homage to the shrine and village of the Goddess of Old Europe.

Finally, Evans 6, Ohlenroth A (alpha) shows the Goddess herself,
Arcadian Elaia Black Demeter Melaina, perhaps referring to
agauos = noble, majestic, worthy of praise --- just as Demeter
on the gold signet ring from Tiryns, which ring, I believe,
commemorates a Middle Helladic fresco or relief:

   http://www.seshat.ch/home/ring.gif

Here you see noble, majestic and praiseworthy Demeter raising
a jug in Y-shape, while the four kings raise libation jugs
with handles - look how the paw of the king on the right side
follows the curve of the handle -, and the shrine of the
Goddess is just indicated by a right angle on the left side,
behind her throne.

Next time: field 9

Regards Franz Gnaedinger

 
> The third and last sign in field seven on the Tiryns side of
> the Phaistos Disk, Evans 31, Ohlenroth K (kappa), shows a standing
> falcon or hawk with a snake.
>
> http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF
>
> The same sign appears in other fields in horizontal position,
> flying toward the right or the left side, having the same Evans
> number 31 but a different phonetic value with Ohlenroth, namely
> S (sigma). More about the horizontal sign in a later message,
> here I just consider the standing falcon.
>
> The three signs in field seven yield O I K and are the begin of
> O I K Y OU S A N S in SEYR ... OI KYOUSANS GONOS ISOS = Zeus,
> to the ones made pregnant by him children are born his equal.
> (Pausanias II 6, 3 quotes an Asios fragment with the dat. auct.
> for the medial variant: Zaeni te kysamenae kai Epopei, poinmeni
> laon.)
>
> Zeus, having children his equal, surely loved women his equal.
> The kappa may then refer to kyria = lady, mistress, while the
> bird may refer to kirkos = falcon, hawk. Woman or bird? Both.
> Evans 31, I believe, shows the Bird Goddess of Old Europe
> that may well have survived in Arcadia at the base of Mount
> Lycaion, in the shrine of the Arcadian Demeter Black Melaina,
> and the fertility symbol of the Bird Goddess was a snake
> (some of you may remember my series of messages on Old Europe
> here in this thread in the spring of 2004).
>
> Now I beg your patience for another mental loop.
>
> We have three signs in field seven, namely the hypothetical
> emblem of a hypothetical Argivian defensive alliance (horkos
> Argous), or the Watchful Eye of the Argolis, or simply Argos
> Eye (opsis Argous), followed by the horn, which is, I believe,
> a sign of equality or symmetry, followed by the standing bird,
> which may commemorate and honor the goddess of Old Europe.
> Reading the three signs as an equation we see that eponymous
> Tiryns equals the new society in the Argolis with the old one
> in Arcadia, or he states a symmetry between them, says that
> both religions have their merits and are on a par, thus
> honoring the old ways and making them useful for his agrarian
> untertakings in the Argolis. That equation or symmetrization
> of old and new religion was, I believe, the reason for separating
> the K-sign from the following signs of K / Y OU S A / N S.
>
> Next time I shall explain the signs in field eight (Y OU S A).
> They honor, I believe, the civilization of Old Europe.
>
> Regards Franz Gnaedinger
>
>
> > The first sign on field seven on the Tiryns side of the Phaistos
> > Disk, Evans 12, Ohlenroth O (omikron), has been explained before.
> > Then follows a new sign, Evans 26, Ohlenroth I (iota), a horn:
> >
> > http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF
> >
> > Further horns mark the begin of field 10, field 13, and field 16,
> > each time with a thorn, and each word is the same:
> >
> > field 10 13 16 I_ S O S = equal, similar (...)
> >
> > The thorn (here horizontal, on the disk in oblique position)
> > makes that word important, and really, it goes along with
> > Derk Ohlenroth's decipherment of the Tiryns spiral (provisional
> > English translation by me, FG):
> >
> > Zeus is the shining one also when Zeus is the Lycaion one
> > to whose women (to the ones made pregnant by him) children
> > are born his equal; and it Tiryns is a god-like town, then
> > also I, eponymous Tiryns, am the shining one's equal
> >
> > Here we have the following "equations":
> >
> > shining (Argivian) Zeus --- Lycaion Zeus
> >
> > Zeus --- his children
> >
> > god-like (shing white?) Tiryns --- shining Zeus
> >
> > the shining one (Zeus) --- his son eponymous Tiryns
> >
> > I assume that eponymous Tiryns came from Lycosoura, struggled
> > to be accepted as well as a native king from the Argolis itself,
> > built a shining white town (downtown Tiryns is still unexcavated,
> > we may expect some surprises there), adopted its name Tiryns
> > for himself as king (eponymous Tiryns), and compared himself
> > via the shining white "god-like" town with the shining one (Zeus).
> >
> > Now consider how well a horn can express the idea of equality
> > and similarity. Bulls, rams and goats have pairs of horns that
> > are symmetrical and in most respects equal. One horn for Argivian
> > Zeus, one horn for Lycaion Zeus. One horn for god-like Tiryns,
> > one horn for eponymous Tiryns. One horn for the shining one (Zeus),
> > one horn for his son eponymous Tiryns.
> >
> > That is no less ingenious a sign of equality and similarity
> > than our modern symbol of equality, which is due to Recorde
> > (Whitstone of witte, London 1557) who says: "I will sette as
> > I doe often in worke vse, a paire of paralleles, or Gemowe
> > lines of one lengthe, thus: ======, bicause noe .2. thynges,
> > can be moare equalle."
> >
> >
> > Next times: Evans 31 vertical in field 8
> >
> > Regards Franz Gnaedinger
> >
> >
> >
> > > Richard Herring: what show do you mean? Kismet? is that a movie?
> > > I vaguely remember having read something about it, but I didn't
> > > see the movie. Kismet means fate? Fate, I believe, was a main
> > > concern of Homer, next to his concern for the unification of
> > > Hellas. I find a similar, say, productive contradiction both
> > > in Homer and in Richard Dawkins. On the one hand, our lives and
> > > fates are ruled and determined by a pantheon of powerful deities;
> > > on the other hand we shouldn't always blame the gods and instead
> > > take on our responsabilities. On the one hand we are slaves of
> > > our selfish genes, on the other hand we should free ourselves
> > > from their tyranny ... I wonder why Richard Dawkins, who is
> > > fighting religion, doesn't see the obvious consequence of his
> > > work, namely that religion may be an extended phenotype of
> > > his very genes (not his personal genes, of course, but his
> > > notion of genes). More in November or somewheres, when I am
> > > done with the signs on the Phaistos Disk. You may chime in
> > > by then and inform us about Kismet.
> > >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > The fourth field on the Tiryns side of the Phaistos Disk
> > > repeats the first one: Evans 38 3 10 = Ohlenroth S EY R.
> > >
> > > The fifth field begins with a one-sign-word, Evans 35 =
> > > Ohlenroth AI; from sparkling wine, as explained before.
> > > Evans 35 in this field has a thorn that may here indicate
> > > a single word, AI, and a crucial one, as it says that Zeus
> > > is the shining one ALSO when Zeus is the Lycaion one.
> > >
> > > The next sign, Evans 19, Ohlenroth Y, has, I believe,
> > > several meanings. Here it may refer to a river joining
> > > another one, and come from words such as hygros, hydraino,
> > > hydor, which begin with an aspirated ypsilon and refer to
> > > water each. Another and essential meaning of Evans 19 shall
> > > be explained when we move on to field eight.
> > >
> > > The last sign in the fifth field, Evans 23, Ohlenroth L,
> > > a pillar, may come from lithos = stone, rock, marble, gem,
> > > and refer to a shrine on Mount Lycaion that was made of
> > > more durable stone.
> > >
> > > Here the field ends, cutting off YL from the following
> > > KIOS, which belong together as YLKIOS = Lycaion (Zeus).
> > > Why that separation? It makes the next field start with
> > > KI, a meaningful combination that refers both to Zeus
> > > descending from peak Diaphorti/Elias, and eponymous Tiryns
> > > from the hill of Tiryns, as explained before.
> > >
> > > The remaining signs in field five, Evans 12 2, Ohlenroth OS,
> > > have been explained in the previous message.

Relevant Pages