Re: Did the Trojan war really happen the way Homer said it did?

From: Franz Gnaedinger (frgn_at_bluemail.ch)
Date: 07/30/04 

Date: 29 Jul 2004 23:52:59 -0700

frgn@bluemail.ch (Franz Gnaedinger) wrote in message news:<2bf25455.0407282328.2906096b@posting.google.com>...

Field 9 on the Tiryns side of the Phaistos Disk contains
the signs Evans 27 18 32 14 27 12 2, Ohlenroth N S G O N O S
(ny sigma gamma omikron ny omikron sigma), the end of
K / Y OU S A / N S, followed by G O N O S

   http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF

Kyousans means the women of Zeus, the ones made pregnant
by him, while gonos means her child, their offspring.
The kappa of kyousans shows a bird, in honor of the Bird
Goddess of Old Europe, and accordingly the gamma of gonos
has to be a bird, since the child or young one of a bird
is a bird. On the level of the script you may call the
two birds at the begin of the words a visual alliteration.
Furthermore kappa and gamma are close. All this supports
the idea of continuity and noble offspring: the child
(eponymous Tiryns) being the equal of the shining one
(Zeus) and his women (descendants of the Bird Goddess
of Old Europe). The gamma of gonos may come from genea,
genealogy, genethlae, genethlon, genosis, genetae, genaemma,
genos. All these words have to do with birth, offspring
and descendance.

Evans 14, Ohlenroth O (omikron) may be seen as a pair
of female breasts and may come from oar = wife, woman.
These would be the breasts that nourish a child, the
equal of Zeus, whose emblematic animal was the eagle,
and that is one more reason to start gonos with a bird.
The swollen breasts are hold by a ribbon or the hem of
the decollete and are seen from below, about as a baby
may see them. The pair of breasts are again a symbol
of equality and symmetry, and the ribbon or hem, which
is divided in three parts of equal length, may symbolize
father Zeus, his women, and their offspring. The ancient
ones had little writing space on a clay tablet or a disk,
nevertheless they succeeded in saying plenty by making
it simple yet complex (my formula and key for understanding
early documents).

Next time: the most fascinating field 10 (isos, equal)

Regards Franz Gnaedinger

> Field 8 on the Tiryns side of the Phaistos Disk contains
> four signs, Evans 19 17 18 6, Ohlenroth Y OY S A, out of
> kyousans, meaning the wives or literally the ones made
> pregnant by Zeus:
>
> http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF
>
> Why are the four signs given separately? They represent,
> I believe, the former civilization of the Goddess, a memory
> of which might have survived in Elaia's grove at Phigalia
> near Lycosoura, where, as I suppose, eponymous Tiryns came
> from. Several clay objects of the Vinca time might have been
> kept in the shrine of the Arcadian Elaia Black Demeter Melaina,
> bearing inscriptions that were no longer readable but may
> nevertheless have conveyed an idea of the former religious
> believes.
>
> Evans 19, Ohlenroth Y (ypsilon), is a frequent Vinca sign
> representing the female Y, phonetic value NAE in the Old
> European Script, but here coincidentally an Y that may
> refer to hypokyomai = to get pregnant (hypokyomai begins
> with an aspirated ypsilon).
>
> Evans 17, Ohlenroth OY (diphtong omikron ypsilon) may show
> a handle and refer to ous = ear, handle ... It would be
> the handle of a jug, a vessel, a basket, which took up
> the various products of the early agrarian societies ruled
> by the Goddess of Old Europe.
>
> Evans 18, Ohlenroth S (sigma), shows the most frequent sign
> in the Vinca script, namely an angle, here practically a right
> angle. The phonetic value in Old European was KE, I believe.
> This value was forgotten, while the new value on the Phaistos
> Disk, an S, may refer to sanis = ... scaffold ...; or to saekos
> = enclosure, stable, sanctuary, shrine ...; or to skaenae = tent,
> hut, house, garden, temple ... So the angle would be a reference
> and homage to the shrine and village of the Goddess of Old Europe.
>
> Finally, Evans 6, Ohlenroth A (alpha) shows the Goddess herself,
> Arcadian Elaia Black Demeter Melaina, perhaps referring to
> agauos = noble, majestic, worthy of praise --- just as Demeter
> on the gold signet ring from Tiryns, which ring, I believe,
> commemorates a Middle Helladic fresco or relief:
>
> http://www.seshat.ch/home/ring.gif
>
> Here you see noble, majestic and praiseworthy Demeter raising
> a jug in Y-shape, while the four kings raise libation jugs
> with handles - look how the paw of the king on the right side
> follows the curve of the handle -, and the shrine of the
> Goddess is just indicated by a right angle on the left side,
> behind her throne.
>
>
> Next time: field 9
>
> Regards Franz Gnaedinger
>
>
> > The third and last sign in field seven on the Tiryns side of
> > the Phaistos Disk, Evans 31, Ohlenroth K (kappa), shows a standing
> > falcon or hawk with a snake.
> >
> > http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF
> >
> > The same sign appears in other fields in horizontal position,
> > flying toward the right or the left side, having the same Evans
> > number 31 but a different phonetic value with Ohlenroth, namely
> > S (sigma). More about the horizontal sign in a later message,
> > here I just consider the standing falcon.
> >
> > The three signs in field seven yield O I K and are the begin of
> > O I K Y OU S A N S in SEYR ... OI KYOUSANS GONOS ISOS = Zeus,
> > to the ones made pregnant by him children are born his equal.
> > (Pausanias II 6, 3 quotes an Asios fragment with the dat. auct.
> > for the medial variant: Zaeni te kysamenae kai Epopei, poinmeni
> > laon.)
> >
> > Zeus, having children his equal, surely loved women his equal.
> > The kappa may then refer to kyria = lady, mistress, while the
> > bird may refer to kirkos = falcon, hawk. Woman or bird? Both.
> > Evans 31, I believe, shows the Bird Goddess of Old Europe
> > that may well have survived in Arcadia at the base of Mount
> > Lycaion, in the shrine of the Arcadian Demeter Black Melaina,
> > and the fertility symbol of the Bird Goddess was a snake
> > (some of you may remember my series of messages on Old Europe
> > here in this thread in the spring of 2004).
> >
> > Now I beg your patience for another mental loop.
> >
> > We have three signs in field seven, namely the hypothetical
> > emblem of a hypothetical Argivian defensive alliance (horkos
> > Argous), or the Watchful Eye of the Argolis, or simply Argos
> > Eye (opsis Argous), followed by the horn, which is, I believe,
> > a sign of equality or symmetry, followed by the standing bird,
> > which may commemorate and honor the goddess of Old Europe.
> > Reading the three signs as an equation we see that eponymous
> > Tiryns equals the new society in the Argolis with the old one
> > in Arcadia, or he states a symmetry between them, says that
> > both religions have their merits and are on a par, thus
> > honoring the old ways and making them useful for his agrarian
> > untertakings in the Argolis. That equation or symmetrization
> > of old and new religion was, I believe, the reason for separating
> > the K-sign from the following signs of K / Y OU S A / N S.
> >
> > Next time I shall explain the signs in field eight (Y OU S A).
> > They honor, I believe, the civilization of Old Europe.
> >
> > Regards Franz Gnaedinger
> >
> >
> > > The first sign on field seven on the Tiryns side of the Phaistos
> > > Disk, Evans 12, Ohlenroth O (omikron), has been explained before.
> > > Then follows a new sign, Evans 26, Ohlenroth I (iota), a horn:
> > >
> > > http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF
> > >
> > > Further horns mark the begin of field 10, field 13, and field 16,
> > > each time with a thorn, and each word is the same:
> > >
> > > field 10 13 16 I_ S O S = equal, similar (...)
> > >
> > > The thorn (here horizontal, on the disk in oblique position)
> > > makes that word important, and really, it goes along with
> > > Derk Ohlenroth's decipherment of the Tiryns spiral (provisional
> > > English translation by me, FG):
> > >
> > > Zeus is the shining one also when Zeus is the Lycaion one
> > > to whose women (to the ones made pregnant by him) children
> > > are born his equal; and it Tiryns is a god-like town, then
> > > also I, eponymous Tiryns, am the shining one's equal
> > >
> > > Here we have the following "equations":
> > >
> > > shining (Argivian) Zeus --- Lycaion Zeus
> > >
> > > Zeus --- his children
> > >
> > > god-like (shing white?) Tiryns --- shining Zeus
> > >
> > > the shining one (Zeus) --- his son eponymous Tiryns
> > >
> > > I assume that eponymous Tiryns came from Lycosoura, struggled
> > > to be accepted as well as a native king from the Argolis itself,
> > > built a shining white town (downtown Tiryns is still unexcavated,
> > > we may expect some surprises there), adopted its name Tiryns
> > > for himself as king (eponymous Tiryns), and compared himself
> > > via the shining white "god-like" town with the shining one (Zeus).
> > >
> > > Now consider how well a horn can express the idea of equality
> > > and similarity. Bulls, rams and goats have pairs of horns that
> > > are symmetrical and in most respects equal. One horn for Argivian
> > > Zeus, one horn for Lycaion Zeus. One horn for god-like Tiryns,
> > > one horn for eponymous Tiryns. One horn for the shining one (Zeus),
> > > one horn for his son eponymous Tiryns.
> > >
> > > That is no less ingenious a sign of equality and similarity
> > > than our modern symbol of equality, which is due to Recorde
> > > (Whitstone of witte, London 1557) who says: "I will sette as
> > > I doe often in worke vse, a paire of paralleles, or Gemowe
> > > lines of one lengthe, thus: ======, bicause noe .2. thynges,
> > > can be moare equalle."
> > >
> > >
> > > Next times: Evans 31 vertical in field 8

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