Re: What's the different between /tS/ as one phoneme and as two?
From: Greg Lee (greg_at_ling.lll.hawaii.edu)
Date: 08/02/04
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Date: 2 Aug 2004 11:43:08 GMT
piotrpanek <WARSAWpiotrpanekNEWYORK@london.gazeta.parispl.rome> wrote:
> Dnia 04-07-31 06:29, w li?cie od osoby znanej jako Greg Lee by?o:
> >>>According to a theory of Saussure's, aperture decreases monotonically
> >>>to the left and to the right of the vowel of a syllable. [ski] is
> >>>not a possible syllable, because the aperture of [s] is greater
> >>>than that of [k]. Accordingly, "ski" must have two Saussurean
> >>>syllables, [s] and [ki].
> But /s/ violates this rule in many IE languages. And if you want to get
> a can of worms opened, in Slavic languages this rule is violated in
> houndreds of words (for example in Polish, which doesn't contain
> syllabic /r/ or /l/, - "pstr?g" 'trout' [pstrONg], "rt??" 'mercury'
> [rtEJts\] etc.)
> >>>
> >>>If you find it disturbing that a fact about syllables might follow
> >>>from a theory about them, well, just remember that Saussure was
> >>>a great linguist.
> >
> He was indeed, but it doesn't mean that "ski" has more syllabes than one :-)
> >
> > Saussure does not say that "ski" and similar examples have an
> > extraordinary number of syllables. Pursuing his idea (which is
> > certainly intriguing) in certain directions might lead one to
> > say that, though.
> >
> It may, but since it leads to an absurd, what follow this way for?
> Of course, I am not a linguist at all, so I may be wrong...
I think "ski" has one syllable. On the other hand, I don't see the
absurdity in saying it has two. False? Arguably. Absurd, no.
Linguists are generally quite willing to pursue unintuitive or
untraditional ideas. What counts is language evidence. You give
some Polish examples which you say violate the rule. Maybe they
do, and maybe they don't. Where are the syllables in your
examples, and what is the evidence that tells us where they
are?
-- Greg Lee <greg@ling.lll.hawaii.edu>
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