Re: Was Iranian languages spoken in Anatolia prior to Battle of Anzikert?

From: Acephale Lemar (me_at_privacy.net)
Date: 08/15/04 

Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 10:14:30 +0200

mark rivers wrote:
> It was the Malazgirt as in Turkish (or Manzikert in English, but not
> Anzikert) Selcuk (or Seljuk) Turks' victory over a decaying Byzantine
> empire only quickened the the loss of Byzantine control over Anatolia.
> It took another nearly 400 years for Byzantine empire to totally
> collapse and disappeare. This time in the hands of Ottoman empire

ACK

> which was not an advocate of Turkish culture, nationalism, language,
> etc., but a champion of millitant and extreme Islamism.

You're crazy, sutten. What's about "christiantism"? LOL
"islamism" is politically buzzword, not an argument.

>
> It was inevitable for Byzantine empire to collapse sooner or later
> under its own decaying weight. If Selcuk Turks and Ottoman empire did
> not quicken it, there were a lot of others both in Europe, Middle East
> and West and Central Asia were ready and would do the same with great
> enthusiasm. European powers were attacking Byzantine empire
> constantly. Crusader armies came and sacked Constantinopole more than
> once; raped almost every single women and girl, looted everything they
> could put their hands on, and massacred great number of people. Arabs
> and Persians made repeated similar attempts since the early times of
> Byzantine system of imperialism and oppression. They too raped,
> tortured, looted and massacred.

Where is the connexion? See topic, please! LOL

> Turkish language was the official languane for the Selcuk Turks and
> their state, and remained so after they took control of Anatolia. The
> Selcuk state was a Turkish state with its language, culture and
> everything else.

IIRC it was only in the principality "Karamanoglu" the official
language.

>
> When Ottoman empire destroyed all the Turkish states and
> principalities of Anatolia, including Selcuk State, it also did
> everthing in its power to destroy Turkish language, culture, national

What is the real reasons that you hate the Ottomans so deeply?

> independence again. And Ottoman empire became an empire of a strange
> combination of its conquered and subjegated peoples, Greeks,
> Armenians, Georgians, Serbs, Albanians, and the other South Eastern
> European peoples Ottoman empire conquered.

An empire is per defitionem a combination of peoples from different
origins, like USA, EU, Russia, China etc.

> The language of that strange empire was a combination of Arabic (just
> beacuse Ottoman sultan was the shadow of Moslem Allah on Earth, its
> khalif, as the champion and extreme militant of Islamism), Persian and

This had happened after the battle in 1517, IIRC. Before, they weren't
khalifs which means "shadow...". Why do you tell a lie?

> the languages of all its subjegated peoples with a very little Turkish
> sprinkled around. Today in Turkey, there is not a single person who
> can read, write, speak or understand Ottoman language anymore.

Another lie. :-( You can buy dictionaries and learn, because you can not
study at an university. Why? Tell for the other people, not for me. I
know the reasons. On the other hand, there are more than 100 people in
Turkey and they can write( this is very simple, if they can write Arabic
too!), understand. Speaking, this is not necessary, because this
language was "murdered" by the founders of the "modern" Turkey. So the
Turks in the Turkey aren't be able to inform thereself about her family.
The documents are in Ottoman. Today, it is like Latin a "dead" language.
I did'nt know of a another country in the world which has cut the
connexions to own history. Therefore the Turks today aren't united, they
are disrupted.

> Millions of Ottoman documents in the archives are being reserched by
> foreign scholars. During Ottoman times too, since they were
> delibarrately kept uneducated, Turks could not read, write, speak or
> understand that strange languange of Ottoman empire.

Tell the reasons, man, tell the facts, WHY? Why don't the turkish
goverment do anything to translate this documents into Turkish, so
everybody can inform himself about the history of his family, clan etc.?
>
> Ottoman oppression over its Turkish subjects went on until Turks
> gained their independence and established their free and democratic
> state of Republic of Turkey on October 29, 1923 after a very bloody
> and long war of independence against Ottoman Empire, the victors of
> WWI, Greeks, Armenians and other Ottoman subjugated peoples.

It is this state which provents the reading, study of this historical
documents, because it is impossible to learn Ottoman language at a
school. You are surprised?

By Hekimoglu Ismail exists an Ottoman-Turkish dicktionay in two volumes,
about 1000 pages. I think, there are more, if you are interested.

fup2sct, and sorry for my non-perfect English.