Re: Let's talk about langages (Advice/Help)

From: ?ystein (oystein_at_nettkjenning.com)
Date: 08/18/04 

Date: 18 Aug 2004 06:38:51 -0700

LEE Sau Dan <danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de> wrote in message news:<m3pt5pxxoh.fsf@mika.informatik.uni-freiburg.de>...
> >>>>> "Jan" == ?ystein <oystein@nettkjenning.com> writes:
>
> Jan> Another point is that it is easier to learn a language the
> Jan> more you are exposed to that language. I think this is an
> Jan> important explanation why people in The Scandianivian
> Jan> countries and the Netherlands generally speaks better English
> Jan> than in onter countries on the European continent. The use
> Jan> subtitles instead of dubbing English speaking movies and tv
> Jan> programs.
>
> Maybe, the English speakers should start consider adding English
> subtitles to their English movies, so as to improve their capability
> of spelling English correctly? :)
>
For that particualt problem I guess the frightening truth is that it
is necesary to turn the tv off and read books insted ;D
 
> Jan> Within the numbers of languages you refer to it is probably
> Jan> true that it comes easier to learn new languages the more
> Jan> languages you allready know. It is limited how many languages
> Jan> the human brain is capable of learning though.
>
> Has this limit been scientifically found? Has its existence been even
> proved?
>
I have only heard so as second hand information.
>
> Jan> Most people will have great difficulties learning say more
> Jan> than 10 languages fluently. I also think that it is easier to
> Jan> learn another language if you know another language with
> Jan> fairly the same grammar to begin with.
>
> I don't have problems learning and keeping to know 10 or more computer
> languages. The problem with human languages seems not the complexity
> (quantity), but the size (quantity). You need to learn a lot of
> words, often groups with subtle differences. You need to learn a lot
> of idiomatic expressions, etc. Otherwise, you can't do much with a
> language. Without computer languages, you can be already quite
> expressive and productive (within the problem domain) with a very
> limited vocabulary.

Your example is better for illustrating the differences than the
similarities between programming and human commuication.

As you indicate you need no know just a few diffent programming
commands to make a lot of programs. If you know 2000 words (and the
basic grammars) of a language, you will probably read a lot of
unfamiliar words in a newspaper.

I guess you can suggest that computerprogramming has 2 different types
of grammer - objectoriented (is that the right English term?) and
"structural" (someuse that term for traditional programming
languages). Objectoriented is just a way to make the other way more
effective.

You use computer programming to solve problems. That is the easy part
when it comes to learning langues, in my experience. How to find the
way to the hotel, order a pizza with ham and cheese, tell your name
and ask for a ticket to Bergen on the right train, is the easy part.
The difficult part in my experience is discussions, unstructured
conversations and listen to someone talk about something you don't
know what is to begin with. Perhaps one could say, the more
unstructured the more difficult to communicate and the more
interesting conversation. Programming on the other hand one might
suggest is the science of structuring information to a degree where
every program is built from the same moduls of code used lots of times
before.

Jan

Relevant Pages

  • Re: compiler for Chinese development language
    ... This relates to the development of vernacular ... Indian vernacular display, OS and programming languages. ... Bangla and other vernaculars. ...
    (comp.compilers)
  • Re: What things should successful programmers-to-be learn right now?
    ... more to the point: In what industries are the languages used ... >targetted at learning about programming. ... >These teach you about the power of higher-order programming, lists and ...
    (comp.programming)
  • Re: Head-in-the-Sand Liberals (LA Times Columnist)
    ... You claimed to have known several computer languages, ... If you lie about knowing computer languages, ... of the programming loop for a functional ... You also don't know Java. ...
    (rec.org.mensa)
  • Re: Is there a mainframe skills shortage?
    ... That's because the author of the article is comparing it to standard SQL. ... and material around Lamdas and functional programming. ... obvious which languages were the ones to learn. ... stick to writing system software and leave applications to the COBOL ...
    (comp.lang.cobol)
  • Re: The Promise of Forth
    ... Fortran libraries from bigFORTH. ... Fortran uses English imperative words like DO as prefix, ... any value in that, programming languages are programming languages, natural ...
    (comp.lang.forth)