Re: Chinese & Maya writing systems
From: Peter T. Daniels (grammatim_at_worldnet.att.net)
Date: 08/23/04
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Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:10:25 GMT
Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
> Since these two writing systems seem to have quite a few
> things in common, they might be related in some way. But
> this is a matter of debate...
Nothing in Dylan's list is peculiar to these two writing systems.
> You also note that the people of both cultures use jade. But
> this is just one of dozens of such things that connects
> them. Have you ever read Needham and Gwei-Djen?
This is not one such thing that connects them.
> Joseph Needham, Lu Gwei-Djen, TRANS-PACIFIC ECHOES AND
> RESONANCES: LISTENING ONCE AGAIN. Singapore; Philadelphia:
> World Scientific, 1985.
>
> That's a pretty comprehensive listing of the cultural
> parallels between China and the Americas, with an additional
> bibliography.
>
> On p. 16, Needham and Gwei-Djen write that these parallels
> between Chinese and Maya writing have been first commented
> upon already nearly two centuries ago, in 1813, by Alexander
> von Humboldt.
Nearly two centuries before Maya could be read, and nearly a century
before the oracle bones were discovered.
> They also comment upon the similarities in the reading order
> between Chinese and Maya writing (something you failed to
> note).
>
> The Mayan hieroglyphics were generally written in paired
> vertical columns; they read from left to right, and then top
> to bottom, in a sort of a zigzag pattern.
>
> As I understand it, the reading order in the ancient Chinese
> was similar if not the same.
Where would you have developed such an understanding? Not in a source
about "ancient Chinese."
> Needham and Gwei-Djen also note similar types of
> indentations in the Chinese and Maya inscriptions.
What do you mean by "indentation"? How many different ways are there of
doing "indentation"?
> And further, they write,
>
> "On the pictographic side, some of the writings from the
> Shih-chai Shan culture (4th to 1st centuries BCE) are
> notably similar to those of the Aztec codices (Fig. 1) [the
> illustration in the back of the book shows some archaic
> Chinese ideograms remarkably similar to the ones that are
> typical in Meso-America]." (p. 16)
What do Aztec codices have to do with Maya writing, and why is it
surprising that pictogram of common objects in different cultures
resemble each other? (Who knows what they mean by ideogram.)
> Also, Needham and Gwei-Djen provide the following further
> refs:
nothing to do with Maya writing
> Paul Arnold, EL LIBRO MAYA DE LOS MUERTOS, Mexico; Editorial
> Diana, 1986 (219 pages).
>
> This book icludes some helpful illustrations that compare
> Mayan and the Chinese ideograms.
I ask you for the eighth time, what are the similarities?
-- Peter T. Daniels grammatim@att.net
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