Re: Can anyone translate English to Aramaic?

From: Pieter (zazaza_at_xs4all.nl)
Date: 08/25/04 

Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:14:18 +0200

"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:412C84EA.7C45@worldnet.att.net...
> Pieter wrote:
> >
> > "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:412BAD56.72FB@worldnet.att.net...
> > > André Keshav wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@worldnet.att.net>
> > > >
> > > > | The biggest problem, as I also indicated, is that you want to
talk about
> > > > | things that they didn't talk about back then, so we can't say
how they
> > > > | would say them. And, of course, there's almost no evidence for
the form
> > > > | of Aramaic spoken in the Levant in the 1st century CE.
> > > >
> > > > Yet Jesus mentions being reborn in spirit, or something along
those lines.
> > >
> > > But they didn't take notes. We only have it in Greek.
> >
> > Just asking and I'll probably make a fool of myself & this
discussion
> > will likely go on forever with such esoteric compounds, but if we
accept
> > for a minute that Jesus if he ever existed had at least some
relation to
>
> There's no reason to suppose Jesus didn't exist, but the connection of
> Qumran with "Essenes" specifically is regarded more and more as a leap
> to conclusions by the first excavator. (Some scholars do still hold to
> that position, though.)
>
> > the Essenes, what language were the Dead Sea scrolls or various
other
> > apocrypha written in?
>
> What does "apocrypha" mean to you?
>
> Most of the non-biblical DSS texts are in Hebrew; a handful of the
> commentaries are in Aramaic.
>
> Luther separated out the biblical books for which no Hebrew original
was
> known in his time as "deuterocanonical" and segregated them in his
Bible
> translation, but still included them; later generations of Protestants
> excluded them from the canon.
>
> For most of them, the Greek text shows indisputable signs of being
> translated from Hebrew, and part of the Hebrew text of Ecclesiasticus
> was discovered in the 19th century.
>
> > And were they entirely unfamiliar, in the light of
> > Messianic prophesies, and assuming for a moment that JC believed
himself
> > to be the fulfillment of those prophecies, with such concepts as the
> > ones at hand, I repeat:
> >
> > "When my day is upon us, a chosen one shall be reborn of body and
> > spirit."
> >
> > I have an old translation of the Scrolls right here but I have a
feeling
> > Peter Daniels can put me right straightaway.
>
> The definitive translation of the DSS (for the time being) is the one
by
> Martinez published by Brill and Eerdmans.
> --

OK to sum up, btw by apocrypha I mean the non-canonical Biblical books,
I thought that was the general meaning, correct me if I'm wrong:

I know about the controversy surrounding the Essenes. Still, Essenes or
not, I believe it is widely thought that Jesus -- again, if he
existed -- had some (possibly a close) relation to the people of Qumran,
and that whether he existed or not those people were instrumental in the
early evolution of the Jewish sect which would eventually come to be
known as Christianity. Again, feel free to correct me.

You say some of the commentaries in the Dead Sea Scrolls are in Aramaic.
Or am I mistaken and does this not refer to the texts found there? (You
also said we only have the stuff in Greek. Now you're saying it's all
soundly based on Hebrew. Or am I wrong?)

But to stick to the Aramaic: I assume those commentaries have been
translated or at least interpreted. If so, it follows that we have some
idea of the Aramaic spoken at the place at the time. Again, correct me
if I'm wrong.

The remaining question would then be, is it unthinkable that Jesus, had
he existed, with a view to the religious beliefs ascribed to him and
those of the sects he is thought to have related to, and keeping in mind
that according to some he knew his end was coming and that he had failed
to fulfill the Messianic prophecy, and having himself been baptized
before he could set out to do his work if that is not a later Christian
invention, would speak of a concept such as the one at hand, and I quote
Dan:

<quote>

Quote: "When my day is upon us, a chosen one shall be reborn of body
and spirit."

Meaning: "Before I (Jesus) return to Earth, a 'chosen' person will be
re-baptized to prepare for my coming."

<unquote>

Thanks for your attention,

Pieter

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