Re: languages in Russia

From: piotr panek (piotrpanek_at_onegazetatwo.threeplfour)
Date: 08/30/04 

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 14:49:48 +0200

Dnia 04-08-30 12:52, w li¶cie od osoby znanej jako Xenia było:
>
> Sorry, who is "Ivan Nevskij"?
>

Ooops. I don't really know :-) As you probably worked out, I meant
Alexandr...

> Yaroslav Vladimirovich compiled the first Russian laws which he called
> "russkaya pravda".

Right - "russkaja" - not "rossijskaja". I know, that these two terms are
sometimes substituted with each other. I also know, that in Russian the
term "russkij" refers to cultural items (including language spoken in
Russia) and "rossijskij" to political ones.

> He would be surprised to learn that he should be
> called "ruthenian", a latin term invented by Poles several centuries
> later.
>
> As for foreigners, we may discuss this point in length. Adam of Bremen
> writes in detail about some country called Ruzia, the Roman pope
> Gregory VII wrote bullas to a king of 'Ruszia', Leopold V of Austria
> sent an embassy to 'Ruzia' in 1192, numerous kings of Hungary and
> Bohemia married princesses rom 'Ruscia',

Etc. Right, in more distant nations usually there is no distinction
between "Rus'" and "Rossija", but I think this distinction is crucial,
when you want to tell about the history of East Slavs.

I mean, that Rus' (in English I use a term "Ruthenia") is a wide term
concerning with a nation of sveral East Slavic tribes from Carpathians
to White Sea. In medieval Rus' was conquested by Tartars, Lithuanians
and Hungarians (the two last parts later were incorporated into Polish
Kingdom). And in Ivan the Terrible times the part of Rus' rejoined by
Grand Duke of Moscow (Moscow, Novgorod etc.) became Rossija. The
remaining parts called Ru¶ Biała (White Ruthenia), Ru¶ Czarna (Black
Ruthenia), Ru¶ Czerwona (Red Ruthenia), Ukraine etc. were included into
Russian Empire, ie. Rossija, later. The time between the period of
numerous Ruthenian (you know what I mean) countries (duchies and
republics) and the peak of the power of the Russian Empire was crucial
to distinction between old Ruthenian tribes. These ruled by Moscow and
St. Petersburg became homogenous - Russians (sensu stricto) while these
ruled by Polish-Lithuanian Kingdom became Belarussians and Ukrainians.
When Belarus and Ukraine (actually the part on the West bank of Dnieper)
became a part of the St. Petersburg country, their inhabitants already
were distnict nations from the Eastern relatives.

piotrek