Re: Did the Trojan war really happen the way Homer said it did?

From: Franz Gnaedinger (frgn_at_bluemail.ch)
Date: 09/17/04 

Date: 16 Sep 2004 23:57:15 -0700

frgn@bluemail.ch (Franz Gnaedinger) wrote in message news:<2bf25455.0409152317.486ee9a1@posting.google.com>...

(o8TY: until now I overlooked your sporadic invectives against me
and replied politely, although your scarce information made me
sigh. I got more and more the impression that you are just surfing
on the web, gathering a morsel here a morsel there and sell them
as an education. Five minutes in a library tell me more than a
dozen replies by you. I looked up Despoina. Despoina = mistress
was the epithet of many a goddess, including Artemis, while the
Despoina of Lycosoura near Phigalia was accompanied by a sacred
doe. From this I infer that deer may have been sacrificed to
Despoina / Artemis, see Diana and Actaeon, while the sacred doe
of Despoina / Nyx was taboo. - Now go away, you are no longer
welcome, your last reply was enough. And I saw that you are
active in a drugs group. You told them that the Minoans had been
the mysterious Pelasgians who worshipped the double axe. The
word fascism, you went on, goes back to those double axes, which
had been piled up to heaps in the shape of mushrooms, hallucino-
genic mushrooms, that is, and so returning to the origin of
fascism wouldn't be such a bad thing after all ... Farewell,
mushroom. I prefer other company, and another way of life.
Serious work and new ideas provide a better flow than drugs do.)

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Field 20 on the Elaia side of the Phaistos Disk, Evans 40 36
26 2, Ohlenroth O R I S (omega rho iota sigma) yields ORIS
of KSYNORIS

   http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF

Evans 40, Ohlenroth O (omega), shows a pair of bee wings and
refers to okypteros (beginning with an omega) = on fast wings.
The bee is an animal of Elaia, as on the gold ring from Mokhlos:

   http://www.seshat.ch/home/elaia.GIF

Evans 36, Ohlenroth R (rho), shows a thornbush and refers to
rhokhos = thornbush. When the Arcadian Elaia had been raped
by Poseidon, she turned into Black Demeter Melaina and made
all platns wither, thus causing a famine; only thornbushes
grew on the fields, no more cereals.

Evans 26, Ohlenroth I (iota), shows a horn and refers to
isos = equal similar, since a pair of horns are a fine example
of equality and similarity and symmetry in nature.

Evans 2, Ohlenroth S (sigma), shows the guard as soldier and
refers to skopeo skopae skopia skopiazo skopos, which words
have to do with guard and guarding.

The previous field E 19 evoked the Lycaion Zeus; the shining
Zeus of Tiryns; Poseidon; and the Golden Fleece retrieved by
Jason = a gold ingot in the shape of a fleece purchased by
Mycenaean sailors. Now field E 20 evokes Elaia and her alter
ego Black Demeter Melaina in the guise of a mare, who, raped
by Poseidon, caused a famine. The horn relates Elaia / Melaina
to the soldier. What have Elaia / Black Demeter Melaina and
the soldier in the army of Zeus in common? The Greeks had
invaded the Peloponnese, overrun the civilization of the
Goddess, and turned her into an enemy, a stining bee on fast
wings, and one that caused a famine, made the plants wither
and only thronbushes thrive ... Those events are commemorated
in field E 20, whose phonetic value ORIS represents the second
part of KYNORIS = pair of horses.

Next time: field E 21, the cry of Black Demeter Melaina
in the guise of a mare

Regards Franz Gnaedinger

> Field 19 on the Elaia side of the Phaistos Disk, Evans 1 38
> 25 27, Ohlenroth K S Y N (kappa sigma ypsilon ny), yields
> KSYN, of KSYNORIS = pair of horses
>
> http://www.seshat.ch/tiryns.GIF
>
> Evans 1, Ohlenroth K (kappa), shows a walking man and refers
> to katabaino = I descend, here meaning Lycaion Zeus descending
> from peak Diaphorti of Mount Lycaion above Elaia's grove at
> Phigalia in southern Arcadia.
>
> Evans 38, Ohlenroth S (sigma), shows the rosette and comes from
> Sseyr = Zeus, the shining god of Tiryns, whose equal is the
> Lycaion Zeus (as stated on the Tiryns side of the Phaistos Disk).
>
> Evans 25, Ohlenroth Y (ypsilon), shows a ship and refers to
> hydor (beginning with an aspirated ypsilon) = water, in the
> plural waters, element of a ship and pertaining to Poseidon,
> who originally was the god of the seas. Furthermore, Poseidon
> was the creator of the waterborn horse that served as a ship,
> for example on the gold ring from Mokhlos:
>
> http://www.seshat.ch/home/elaia.GIF
>
> Evans 25, Ohlenroth Y, a ship, refers to nautos = ship and
> nausiporos = navigable, while Evans 27, Ohlenroth N, a wave,
> refers to nautos = ship, and nausiporos = navigable. One would
> expect ship > ship and wave > water. But no, we have ship >
> water(s) and wave > ship. A remarkable intertwining that may
> be justified by the close relation of water and ship, for the
> more properties of water are incorporated in a ship the better
> the ship is. I remember the drawings I made when applying for
> the official art school of Zurich. I sat with a colleague of
> mine at the shore of lake Zurich and drew the flat waves
> rippling the fairly quiet surface. When I looked for a long
> time on the water, say, for some twenty minutes, the waves
> turned into a swarm of leaping fish ... I told myself that
> such an illusion is only possible because evolution made
> the fish take over so many properties of the water. You may
> also consider the attempts of covering the rumps of ships
> and submarines with an artificial dolphin skin in order to
> make them softer, more suiting the water, and thus swifter.
>
> Evans 27, Ohlenroth N (ny), shows a hide and refers to nakae =
> fleece. On a gold disk it would be a golden fleece representing
> a gold ingot in the shape of a fleece. The Mycenaeans purchased
> gold from Egypt, perhaps via Crete, from Anatolia, from the
> eastern shore of the Black Sea, from the lower Danube basin,
> and from Italy - as seafarers, that is, relying on their fine
> ships, sailing across the seas like riding on horses, trusting
> on their patron Poseidon, creator of the waterborn horse that
> served both as ship and emblem of a ship --- the Trojan Horse
> was a ship, as explained early on in this thread, and when
> Odysseus leaves pleasant Scherie, the ships start like horses.
>
>
> Next time: field E 20
>
> Regards Franz Gnaedinger
>
>
>
> > Field 18 on the Elaia side of the Phaistos Disk, Evans 35 20
> > 24 24 29, Ohlenroth AI PS A A I (alpha-iota psi alpha alpha
> > iota), yields AIPSA AI
> >
> > http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF
> >
> > The signs in the entrance field represent offerings to Demeter
> > / Elaia.
> >
> > Evans 35, Ohlenroth AI (alpha-iota), shows a vine twig and
> > refers to aithiops oinos = sparkling wine, a standing formula
> > in Homer. Libation jugs presumably filled with sparkling wine
> > are raised in honor of Demeter on the gold signet ring from
> > Tiryns:
> >
> > http://www.seshat.ch/home/ring.gif
> >
> > Evans 20, Ohlenroth PS (psi), is a new sign, which I interpret
> > as a sack filled with unwashed wool: an offering to the Arcadian
> > Elaia according to Pausanias. The phonetic value may refer to
> > psiathos = paillasse, only that the sack is not filled with
> > straw but unwashed wool; unwashed so that it still contains
> > the sheep fat and gives warm. We may assume that the priestesses
> > in Elaia's grove slept on wollen mattrasses, while common people
> > slept on paillasses.
> >
> > Evans 24, Ohlenroth A (alpha), shows a portable beehive and
> > refers to ambrosia, which, I believe, was a mixture of honey,
> > olive oil, and herbs such as milfoil, lavender, thyme and sage.
> > The bee was a companion of the Cretan Elaia, as seen on the gold
> > ring from Mokhlos:
> >
> > http://www.seshat.ch/home/elaia.GIF
> >
> > Evans 29, Ohlenroth I (iota), shows the head of a pig turned
> > upside down and refers to hieron (beginning with an aspirated
> > iota) = sacrificial animal, sacrifice, place of an oracle, omen,
> > sanctuary, service, act in a service, cult; in the plural
> > mysteries. The head of the pig appears in the very entrance,
> > and it looks toward the oven, emblem of Demeter, in the center
> > field E 1. Pigs had been sacrificed to Demeter. Hence it is
> > the pig a visitor to Elaia's grove had to bring with or buy
> > and sacrifice or let sacrifice in honor of Black Demeter Melaina,
> > mother of Despoina/Nyx, whose priestesses gave oracles in Elaia's
> > grove at Phigalia in southern Arcadia.
> >
> >
> > Next time: field E 19
> >
> > Regards Franz Gnaedinger
> >
> >
> >
> > > Field 17 on the Elaia side of the Phaistos Disk, Evans 18 14 16,
> > > Ohlenroth S O AE (sigma omikron aetha), yields SOAE = neigh!
> > >
> > > http://www.seshat.ch/home/tiryns.GIF
> > >
> > > Evans 18, Ohlenroth S (sigma), shows a wooden angle and refers
> > > to sanis = board, plank, writing table, scaffold, door ...
> > > a hommage to the civilization of Old Europe, the shrines of
> > > the Goddess and the villages of the early farmers.
> > >
> > > Evans 14, Ohlenroth O (omikron), shows a pair of female breasts
> > > resembling the ones on the rhiton from Mokhlos in Crete, perhaps
> > > from around 2000 BC, and refers to oar = wife, woman.
> > >
> > > Evans 16, Ohlenroth AE (aetha), shows a bronze knive and refers
> > > to aenops = shining, bright, bare. The capabilities of casting
> > > bronze and taming horses triggered the Indo-European expansion.
> > >
> > > SOAE means neigh. The ones who wished to obtain the oracle of
> > > Despoina/Nyx had to "neigh suddenly like a pair of horses,"
> > > namely Black Demeter Melaina in the guise of a mare and Poseidon
> > > in the guise of a stallion during their begetting and conceiving
> > > of Despoina/Nyx. A rape, actually, reflecting the Indo-European
> > > invasion in the Peloponnese. However, that hurtful period of
> > > transition is over. Eponymous Tiryns reconciled the former
> > > female civilization in the name of the Goddess and the new male
> > > civilization in the names of Zeus and Poseidon. The central sign
> > > of field E 17, the female breasts that remind of a rhiton,
> > > is a symmetrical ideogram and may thus indicate an equivalence.
> > > What have a wooden angle and a bronze knive in common? Bronze
> > > tools can help cutting willow twigs for making baskets; fell
> > > trees and make boards and planks for building houses; and then
> > > a well built house may be filled with baskets and vessels and
> > > jars, and with rhitons evoking the Goddess of old and thus
> > > honor the civilization of the Goddess for their achievements.
> > >
> > >
> > > Next time: entrance field E 18, offerings for Demeter / Elaia

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