Re: Origin of Chinese spoken languages - 2nd evidence

From: PaPaPeng (papapeng_at_yahoo.com)
Date: 10/21/04 

Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:36:21 GMT

On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:02:12 +0000 (UTC), SJ <donot@send.spam.net>
wrote:

>PaPaPeng <papapeng@yahoo.com> wrote in
>news:jeken05mteidmunlvhmga8u6nrijd91f9q@4ax.com:
>
>>There were no equivalent levels of civilization in
>>Korea or Japan then and not for more than a thousand years more.
>
>Your argument may become a little bit closer to reality if your 'Korea'
>here means the current national boundary of S. and N. Korea. Most naive
>Chinese assume that the boundary of ancienit 'CHINESE' civilizations equals
>to the current boundary of People's Republic of China. Thus, Goguryo should
>be 'CHINESE' because most of its territory located within the boundary of
>their goverment's directl rule.
>
>They seem to believe that their ancestors had mysterious supernatural power
>to foretell the existence of PRC and its national boundary. I hope a piece
>of oracle bones could support their belief.
>

You must be some pretty acrobatic contortionist. A cursory Google
search turned up this

http://64.233.167.104/custom?q=cache:oWJaROQTTe4J:faculty.washington.edu/soohee/gradcolltalk.pdf+Korean+language+origin&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

>2. Development of the Korean language The Altaic race that settled in the northern Korean peninsula and the Manchu area are believed to have spoken two different languages. Puyo and Han. The Puyo language was spoken by tribal states such as Puyo, Kokuryo, Okcho, and Yemaek in Mancuria and northern Korea. The Han language was spoken by the three Han tribal states Chinhan, Byonhan, and Mahan in southern Korea. Around the fourth century AD, three kingdoms appeared in the Korean peninsula. Kokuryo, Shilla, and Paekche. Occupying the Manchurian territory and northern Korean peninsula, Kokyro people spoke the Puyo language and the Shilla people spoke the Han language. Linguists and historians do not agree on what language was spoken in Paekche. Some believe that the ruling class spoke the Puyo language, and the ruled class spoke the Han language. Others disagree. Altaic --Toigic --Mongol-Tungusic -- ?? --Puyeo -- Kokuryo, Puyo, Okcho, Yemaek -- Han -- Chinhan, Byonhan, Mahan --Shilla --
Modern Korean (a more recent/radical version of genetic classification)
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Page 3
>When Shilla unified the Korean peninsula in the seventh century, the Han language became the sole dominant language through the two succeeding dynasties of Koryo (936-1392) and Choson (1392-1910). As the capital of each dynasty was moved from Kyongju (Southeast part of the Korean peninsula, for Shilla), to Kaekyong (Central region of the peninsula, for Koryo), and then to Seoul (for Chosun), then contemporary standard dialect was defined based on the dialect spoken in and near the capital

The above is an abstract from a much longer exposition of the origin
of the Korean language and history. You may do well to read it
closely. There are many other online and print sources that will
provide cinsistent and similar accounts.

One thing for certain is that the peoples from northern parts of
modern China including the peninsular of Korea in earlier times pretty
much developed independently from the mainstream of Chinese
civilization. No doubt there was interaction but the flow of
inmfluence had always been from China outwards. You don't find any
Korean or Manchurian expressions, folklore or cultural artifacts
incorporated into any Chinese body of thought.

In 2. above early Koreans spoke Puyo and Han in the 4th century AD and
when Korea was unified in the 7th century Han became dominant. Direct
Chinese overlordship of Korea came even later. These events, as I said
earlier, took place more than a thousand years after writing was
invented in China. This timeline is way, way too late to claim any
Korean influence in the development of spoken Chinese. A few
centuries before the stranglehold of Confuscian orthrodoxy had
already occurred to bedevil countless generations of gentlemen
scholars to this day.

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