Re: Cambodia v. Kampuchea

From: Peter T. Daniels (grammatim_at_worldnet.att.net)
Date: 11/28/04 

Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 14:28:17 GMT

*** T. Winter wrote:
>
> In article <41A889A9.6170@worldnet.att.net> "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> > *** T. Winter wrote:
> ...
> > > A very wrong transcription you can find in Turkish for the Belgian city
> > > Brussels. It is shown as "Brüksel". It starts with the French name,
> > > omits the silent last syllable and transcribes "x" as "ks", which is
> > > illogical at the least.
> >
> > If the last syllable is silent, why would it be represented in a
> > transcription?
> >
> > How would you render [ks] in the Turkish alphabet other than as <ks>?
>
> But the 'x' in 'Bruxelles' is not pronounced as [ks] but as [s]. The 'x'
> is a strange letter in French with many different pronunciations, as an
> example, in 'Auxerre' is is pronounced as [z] (and I do not even talk
> about the 'x' as used in Wallonia (*)). And the 'u' is pronounced
> as [y], so there they are correct. The Turkish name is a mixture between
> translitteration and transcription.
> ---
> (*) Walloon 'xh' is historically pronounced [x], in Wallonia there are
> about 33 places of which the name begins with this combination.
> By the way, offhand I do not know *any* French word where the 'x' is
> pronounced as [ks].
> ---

Très luxe, d'accord?

If "Bruxelles" were pronounced with [x], it would have come into English
as "Bruckles" or some such. If the train annunciator on my trip from
Antwerp to the airport had said "[bry'sEl]" rather than "[bryk'sEl]" in
her French version, I think I would have noticed that it seemed odd.

> > > As in the example
> > > above, where in the French name "Bruxelles" the "x" is pronounced as
> > > a sharp "s".
> >
> > In German, "sharp s" means 'long s'. What does it mean in French?
>
> I meant [s].
>
> > > And to recap from previous messages:
> > > 1. Belarus is a transliteration.
> > > Byelarus is a transcription to English.
> >
> > Which would be pronounced ['bajl@ruws].
>
> Not ['bjel@ruws]?

Of course not! There's no /by/ in English. Maybe the bagel-like roll
called "bialy" in English represents a Yiddish < Slavic [bjali], but it
has three syllables in English. "Bjorn" as in Borg has two syllables,
and so does "fjord."

> > > White Russia is a translation.
> > > 2. Cote d'Ivoire is a transliteration.
> >
> > One doesn't "transliterate" from an alphabet to itself.
>
> What do you call the dropping of diacritics? Or any other method to
> render letters with diacritics to (a series of) letters without
> diacritics? As in German 'ü' -> 'ue'?

Um, "dropping of diacritics"?

> > > Côte d'Ivoire is the original name.
> > > Ivory Coast is a translation.
> > > 3. Moldova is the original name.
> > > Moldavia is an English rendition (and there are such in quite a few
> > > languages).
> >
> > The English name of the country seems to be Moldova; but I don't know
> > for sure, so I didn't comment on this one earlier. "-avia" is a somewhat
> > productive suffix in English, cf. Moravia, Belgravia (the neighborhood
> > of Belgrave Square, London).
>
> I just checked my reliable Philips' Modern School Atlas from 1941. It gives
> the name as Moldavia.

The country came into existence only in 1991.

The nighttime soap opera *Dynasty* (or maybe it was the other one that
was on during the same seasons; I never watched either one) set a
lengthy plot line in the mythical nation of "Moldavia." 

-- 
Peter T. Daniels                       grammatim@att.net
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