Re: hungary and austria in arabic

ybg_at_theworld.com
Date: 12/10/04 

Date: 10 Dec 2004 08:05:20 -0800

Paul J Kriha wrote:
> I Am What I Am <iamwhatiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1102574768.867502.197890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
> > > medieval arabs very rarely communicated directly (unless you
count
> > the
> > > skirmishes with the Rus) with russians.
> >
> > yes, medieval arabs "communicated directly" with poles and czechs
much
> > more often ')
>
> And indeed they have.
> (I know you didn't mean to, but you are dead right :-).
>
> Many of the major South-North trading highways, salt, silver,
> gold, silk, and other routes led through middle Europe, through
> Prague to Poland and farther North and North-West.
>
> The oldest known arab-language travelogue (of this area)
> is by Arab-Jewish merchant Ibrahim Ibn Jacob who visited
> Prague on his way through Europe in 965. 10th Century!
> He found here "a town 100 years of age, built of stone and lime
> and with the richest trade of all Slavic cities".
> He described in detail quantity of stone buildings, numbers of
> bow, shield, and carriage manufaturers, gold and silver smithies
> and quality of their products.
>
> No doubt, travellers, tradesmen, military spies, i.e. people like
> him with their large retinues *communicated directly* rather
> a lot about names of peoples they met and names they had for
> their neighbouring tribes and peoples.

but still, it was rare.

the only mention of a name resembling Nemets is na:ji:n which is
included as a tribe of "Slavs" (Saqa:liba(t) ) while the same writer,
Mas`ud (10th cent.) has a list of Holy Roman Emperors under the title
"Kings of the Franks". better information came from Spain and Sicily,
so the names 'alma:n, jirma:n or (generic) 'ifranj ("Franks", rather
generic) was common.

Ottomam Turks had regular contacts with Germans from the East,
occasionally used Nemc^e / Nemse, and thus transmitted it to Modern
Standard Arabic.

this is consistnet with "the paper trail".

it is always possible to concoct scenarios for anything, so it is
better
to stick to what is attested, unless information later turns up to
modify it.

>
> Paul JK

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