Re: non-phonetic english spelling

From: John A Rea (j.rea2_at_insightbb.com)
Date: 12/25/04 

Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 01:35:22 GMT

mb wrote:

>>Very strange. The FL speaker/listener's impression is rather the
>>contrary: That a majority of the final so-called schwas presented in
>>school French are totally absent from speech, according, of course, to
>>position.
>
>
> <<Yes, that too is true. Both are happening at the same time. Written
> -e's are often absent, depending on what follows, on speed, on extra
> stress, etc. But words that don't have that written -e, but just a
> final consonant (not r), follow that same pattern, i.e. the shwa
> usually isn't there, but sometimes is. It's there under the same
> circumstances as written final -e.
> Conclusion: French words cannot end in a consonant (except r).>>
>
> So any released stops are not consonants? I couldn't even understand
> what you meant before it was pointed out to me.
> Besides, this is mainly if not exclusively about final consonants in
> pausal position (otherwise border phenomena). Apart from the stops,
> which consonants will have a "final vowel"? Perhaps -r (contrary to
> some statements here), that in many people's speech does have an
> obligatory vowel-like sound if pausal.
>
>
>>Possibly then, we are back for the umpteenth time to the old story:
>>Either we have to define the elusive "schwa", or we have to provide a
>>more precise description than an all-purpose word.
>
>
>>I don't see the problem. Just listen to French radio, and it's there.
>
>
> In careful enunciation, of course there are additions, but there are
> rules. The great majority concern the sounding of an e muet. And there
> are a lot of words and situations where it is a definite no-no.
>
> The problem is a) that calling something a vowel sound, out of lack of
> familiarity or any other reason, does not make it so; b) that saying
> something is a "schwa" doesn't mean anything anymore, it's become just
> a catch-all word.
>
Here one usually refers to a "voyelle d'appui" added to permit
pronunciation of an otherwise "unpermitted" syllable cluster: and
this helping vowel turns out to be the same mid-central, slightly
rounded sound we have called "schwa" in French!
                
                Jack

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Terrorized by War on Terror
    ... Ala Iraq. ... who might be mistaken or treated  for tangos. ... French Foreign Legion. ... Save the constraints on speech (McCain-Feingold, ...
    (misc.survivalism)
  • Re: Martinons Prokofiev/Prokofieff cycle
    ... I got Vol.I although I had heard more than once that the sound quality ... French wind playing. ... Actually, if you simply listen to his RCA recordings of the period, you ... romain", Prokofiev 1st violin concerto with Zimmermann, ...
    (rec.music.classical.recordings)
  • Re: Bernard Haitink named Principal Conductor of Chicago Symphony!
    ... weight and darkness to it despite some of the usual French aspects. ... I also liked the OdP under Barenboim. ... and I really like their Debussy recordings. ... changes in the CSO's sound, and I suspect by the end the musicians ...
    (rec.music.classical.recordings)
  • Re: Representing futuristic English
    ... the current English word rule is ... preceding a consonant sound, "an" preceding a vowel sound, and the ... French similarly pronounce "un" without the consonant ending preceding ...
    (rec.arts.sf.composition)
  • Re: Philippe Cassards Debussy: the instrument is the thing!
    ... Even if you speak no French, the site is exactly the same as any other ... The sound is truly magical. ... Monique Haas - clean, clear, jazzy players without a hint of that ... ADDA went bankrupt as Cassard was about to record them. ...
    (rec.music.classical.recordings)