Re: Schwa (Re: non-phonetic english spelling)

From: Bart Mathias (mathias_at_hawaii.edu)
Date: 12/25/04 

Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 05:00:39 GMT

Jacques Guy wrote:
> Bart Mathias wrote:
>
>>In what way? The devoiced (or fricated[?], after a fricative) vowels in
>>Japanese are all lexically "there," not added because consonants have to
>>be released. In French there are perhaps two kinds, lexical as in, say,
>>"monde," and rule-derived, as in "cinq."
>
>
> Vous vous fourrez tous le doigt dans l'oeil jusqu'au coude.
>
> Why?
>
> Because you are trying to fit disparate phonetic
> phenomena into an arbitrary word ("schwa") instead
> of trying to find what makes the phenomena tick.

Are you sure? I don't see any reference to a schwa in what I wrote, or
any connection between that and what you say below:

> There is no "French schwa". There is an epenthetic
> vowel the phonetic value of which oscillates between
> rounded and less rounded, central and less central,
> and so on, the presence or absence of which is partly
> predictable, partly impredictable. To call it "schwa"
> is fine. But to try to fit it into the Procrustean
> bed of English schwa (or, Jehovah forbid! Hebrew
> schwa)... it's a bit like... yes... here is my
> "Grammaire de la langue tahitienne" by R.D. Lovy
> and L.-J. Bouge... page 81:
>
> Conjugaison de quelques verbes
>
> Fabriquer (Conditionnel présent):
>
> _Je fabriquerais, si..._ E hamani au, ahiri...
>
> and, page 88:
>
> Etre arrêté -- Passé lointain, indéfini:
>
> _J'ai été arrêté_ Ua tapeahia vau
>
> It's a bit like that.
>
> I wrote: "There is an epenthetic
> vowel".
>
> Well, no. I should have written: "there are
> circumstances ("environments" if you prefer)
> where an epenthetic vowel...". And there
> are circumstances when a vowel which was
> or should be there disappears in a puff of
> orange smoke(*), and you have no real idea why
> ... and when not.
>
>
> (*) Allusion to "Colossal Cave".