Re: Related languages (Re: A China-Sumer connection)

From: John Atkinson (johnacko_at_bigpond.com)
Date: 03/20/05 

Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 02:48:22 GMT

"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@worldnet.att.net> wrote :
>
> No, creoles do _not_ reflect the grammar of one of their source
> languages. It used to be thought that the similarity among all creoles
> resulted from their all developing from a Portuguese substratum and a
> local superstratum -- until many, many creoles were discovered in parts
> of the world that had never been visited by Portuguese advernturers,
> traders, whatever.

OK, I know only one creole well enough to comment on -- Tok Pisin. (While
I've read a lot *about* the Atlantic and Indian Ocean creoles, I haven't
studied enough example text to comment critically on what people like Holm
say about them, nor do I know enough about their probable African substrate
languages -- Yoruba is the only one I've read a grammar of, and I don't
think it's very typical of them anyway.) I've also a little familiarity
with Eastern Congo Swahili (I was there in 1992), but this is hardly a
creole IMO.

Anyway, there's no doubt at all in my mind that the way in which Tok Pisin
grammar differs from English is mostly due to the fact that it was developed
by speakers of Tolai (Kanua) and related languages of the Gazelle Peninsula.
Arguably, some of these grammatical ideosyncracies do agree with those
hypothesised for the underlying bioprogram, but even these ones *also* occur
in Tolai.

OK, Tok Pisin is probably "simpler" than either English or Tolai (has less
rules, and less exceptions to these rules -- yes, I know that such things
are hardly quantifiable). But I think Bickerton's hypothesis is supposed to
say more than just this.

> Some version of Bickerton's hypothesis that absence of "whole"
> linguistic input causes the "underlying" linguistic capacity of an
> infant to shape its emergent language must be closest to the facts.

I believe it has some influence, but doubt that it is the *major* causative
factor in producing (most?) creole grammars. (As I said though, I don't
really know what I'm talking about when it comes to the Atlantic creoles.)

I'd be interested to hear whether Guy and Ross agree with what I say
above -- they're the local experts on Melanesian creoles and Austronesian of
course.

John.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Related languages (Re: A China-Sumer connection)
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