Re: Does Accent Change Intrinsically?
From: Brian M. Scott (b.scott_at_csuohio.edu)
Date: 03/22/05
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Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:47:34 -0500
On 22 Mar 2005 03:33:20 -0600, brennus
<galaxym812000@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid> wrote in
<news:423fe660$1_1@127.0.0.1> in sci.lang:
> Mr. Brian Scott,
> Re: <<Ruud's comments were entirely appropriate. That you don't
> recognize them as an intelligent response tends to confirm
> your ignorance of the subject.>>
> How naive can you be? Give me a break! Ruud poses seven
> questions or comments regarding my post; none of them
> very sterling.
He gave it just about the treatment it deserved, considering
how full of errors it is.
> Each one of them can be refuted categorically.
Questions are not subject to refutation in the first place.
But let's take a look. Here's the post, with comments
added:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:34:36 +0100, Ruud Harmsen
<realemailseesite01@rudhar.com.invalid> wrote in
<news:lfbl31p2dueu3hgnhm7d2o3hqlb7deoho5@4ax.com> in
sci.lang:
> 18 Mar 2005 03:33:15 -0600:
> galaxym812000@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (brennus): in sci.lang:
>>There is some evidence that accents in human languages can still
>>change without external influences.
> Whyever would they not?
Or to say the same thing at much greater length, all of the
evidence is that they invariably do change, with or without
external influences.
>> For example, Icelandic, as conservative as it is, has
>> changed a little bit in acccent and pronunciation from
>> that of Old Norse.
> Not just a little bit, but considerably.
Which is certainly true. And the morphology and syntax have
changed a bit, too.
>> Yet, Icelandic society was almost completely isolated
>> from the rest of northern Europe after the middle of the
>> 12th century.
> So?
>> Linguists have also noticed changes in the accents of
>> Black American speakers. Just a century ago, Black
>> American accents were nearly identical to those of White
>> American Southerners. Recordings of them were made as
>> late as the 1940's. By comparing the speech of 21st
>> century American Blacks with these, we know that their
>> accents have undergone some changes.
> They moved from the south to New York, Chicago etc.? Which Black
> accent are we talking about, from which parts of the US?
Ruud was overly kind here: he pointed out only one of the
obvious problems with your statement.
>>However, I can't think of any external
>>influences that would really cause their accents to change.
> Why should external influences have anything to do with accents?
A better question would have been why on earth you think
that external influences were necessary, since we know that
they aren't.
>> The majority of them still live in the South or have
>> until the last 15 to 25 years.
> Is that so? Aren't black people now all over the country?
Yes, though there are places where they're a very small
minority. However, over a third of them are in the states
of New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland,
Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois.
>>Even, outside the South, they have little interaction with
>>Northern Whites or Hispanics.
> ???
Precisely. Your claim of little interaction is rubbish.
> However, the $60,000 dollar question
The idiom is '64,000 dollar question'.
> is why are you not discussing Iain's topic yourself?
There's nothing to discuss. Languages change irrespective
of circumstances.
[...]
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