Re: Does Accent Change Instrinsically?

From: Peter T. Daniels (grammatim_at_worldnet.att.net)
Date: 03/23/05 

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:52:58 GMT

brennus wrote:
>
> Ruud and Brian (Scott),
>
> I can see right now that I'm not going to get you guys to compose
> commentaries with an introduction, a premise and a conclusion. It
> doesn't seem to be your style. So, I'll try to tailor my responses
> more to your way of thinking and doing things.
>
> Don't get me wrong, however. I'm not saying that you don't have a
> right to criticize what I write. In a public internet forum, anyone
> can criticize what anyone writes; but the more facts and information
> you have when you criticize the better off you are. Part of the
> problem, too, is that this is a tough subject to talk about on the
> internet for anyone. Were I talking to you about it in a bar (tavern,
> pub etc) over a couple of beers it would be different and I think we
> might understand each other better.
>
> Now, I'll get of my lecture, my soapbox, and just recap the seven
> points where objections were raised and give my responses. I realize
> that I can't force you to accept them but they do reflect the truth
> as I see it.
>
> 1) Iain asks a legitimate question. In most languages accent and
> pronunciation changes come about through contact with either another
> language or another dialect which has higher political or cultural
> status.

factually incorrect

> You have to stop and think a bit to find a language or a
> dialect where accent change has occured on its own.

factually incorrect

> Icelandic and Black American English (i.e. Ebonics) are two languages
> that have existed and developed almost in vacuum.

factually incorrect

> They are also two
> languages where we have some written records that we can compare. For
> instance, the Jivaro Indian language deep in the Ecuadorian
> rainforest has probably also undegone some changes in accent and
> pronunciation on its own too since the Spanish first encountered
> them in 1596 but there are no written records to prove it.

<skipping Icelandic>

> 4)Black English is a pretty homogeneous dialect replete with southern
> inflections regardless of what part of the United States it is spoken
> in. Ruud is mistaken in thinking that there is a "New York" form and a
> "Chicago" form etc.

factually incorrect

> 5) External influences do affect accents. Celtic tongues shaped Latin
> into French.

factually incorrect

> 1,000 years of Chinese rule in Vietnam transformed
> Vietnamese from an Austronesian language into more of a Chinese-like

factually incorrect

> language. The accent and pronunciation of English changed after the
> Norman conquest (1066); the umlaut and gutteral sounds disappeared.
> There are Spanish inflections on Chicano English, Afrikaans
> inflections on South African English etc.
>
> 6) It's true that Blacks can be found through out most parts of the
> United States from coast to coast - However, the majority of Amrican
> Blacks (or "Afro-Americans") still live in the South; 58.4% according
> to the 2000 census. Last year I read an article which said that more
> Blacks were actually moving back to the South from the northern and
> western states.
>
> 7) Although de jure segregation ended in the United States between
> 1947 and 1964, a form of de facto segregation still exists. Blacks
> and Whites still live largely apart from one another in public and
> reside in separate communities. Hispanics generally don't get along
> with Blacks in the United States either. Mexican inmates killed a
> number of Black prisoners in a 1979 prison riot in New Mexico and
> even beheaded some of them. Prejudice against Blacks still exists
> among non-Black Cubans in both Cuba and the United States where many
> have come as refugees. I've seen some of it first hand.

irrelevant 

-- 
Peter T. Daniels                       grammatim@att.net

Relevant Pages

  • Does Accent Change Instrinsically?
    ... language or another dialect which has higher political or cultural ... Icelandic and Black American English are two languages ... United States from coast to coast - However, ... Blacks still live in the South; ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: The Origins of the Universe
    ... As recently as this moment, many blacks in America, and not only in the ... The United States is not only the strongest country ... We have no reserves with which to fight a war ...
    (sci.astro.amateur)
  • Re: NIS reverses IP address
    ... the Symantec files display that these are English (United States) ... language files. ... 56,8 KB (60,0 KB on disk) ... Language: English ...
    (comp.security.firewalls)
  • Re: OT-Any doubt the Democrats are preparing to offer amnesty? YES, QUITE A FEW DOUBTS AMONG INT
    ... 38 SENATORS VOTED TODAY AGAINST MAKING ENGLISH THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE ... The Government of the United States shall preserve and enhance the ... this amendment declared that the federal government ...
    (rec.outdoors.rv-travel)
  • Re: Colorado rednecks dont trust bilingual material in libraries
    ... > state language. ... Despite its linguicidal history, it has _always_ been ... > Spanish branches would prevent anybody from "becoming American" ... > restricted to Mexicans -- Puerto Rico, part of the United States, had ...
    (soc.culture.baltics)