Re: Teaching and Learning English in Hong Kong

From: Lee Sau Dan (danlee_at_informatik.uni-freiburg.de)
Date: 03/24/05 

Date: 24 Mar 2005 08:04:28 +0800

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Walsh <jiSPm_walAMsh_iii@oOKperamNOail.com> writes:

    Jim> Teaching that "tah" is equal to "he" is NOT grammar.
>> Of course not. It is not even correct. "tah" can mean "he",
>> "she", "it" or "they", and also "him", "her", "them".
    Jim> It is vocabulary.
>> No. It's bad translation.

    Jim> Agree that it is a bad translation of vocabulary.

    Jim> But then ALL translations are bad.

    Jim> For example, you said "tah" means "it" (in part). That is
    Jim> false. The words "it" and "tah" are similar but NOT the same
    Jim> (even when you ignore the other things that "tah" means).

    Jim> Consider the following short dialogue:

    Jim> Do you want this book?

    Jim> Yes, I want it.

    Jim> When translating that into Chinese, the word "it" in the
    Jim> answer is ignored. It is NOT translated as "it".

    Jim> Chinese ESL students under the impression that "it' means
    Jim> "tah", often respond to the question, "Do you want this
    Jim> book?" with "I want", omitting the "it" in imitation of the
    Jim> Chinese grammar.

That's why it's helpful to know Mandarin/Taiwanese when teaching the
Taiwanese English. Chinese wisdom: _Know thyself and your enemy,
you'll win every battle_. Those native-speaking teachers who think
that it is not useful to learn to local languages themselves are
simply lazy and ignorant.

    Jim> Translating "tah" as it (in part) encourages them to do so.

I don't think so. However you translate "tah", or "it", they'll tend
to drop that pronoun in the response, because they do so in their
mother tongue. It's a problem with grammar, not vocabulary or
translation. You need to teach them that the "it" there is
obligatory, unlike in Chinese (and Japanese) where it is optional. If
you the teach already knows Chinese, you'll be more aware of such
differences and warn the students of the trap before they even step on
it. Isn't it better?

    Jim> BTW, "tahmen" sometimes means "they/them", but "tah"
    Jim> doesn't.

It does, when refering to inanimates. e.g. "I have a dozen apples.
Please bring all of *it* home.". In this situation, the 12 apples are
refered to using "tah", not "tahmen", in Chinese.

    Jim> I have been teaching English in Taiwan more or less
    Jim> continuously since 1987, and I know quite a bit about how to
    Jim> do so well. And translation from Chinese is virtually never a
    Jim> good idea.

Neither is it a good idea not to know the local language. 

-- 
Lee Sau Dan                     §õ¦u´°                          ~{@nJX6X~}
E-mail: danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee

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