Re: How close is Vietnamese to Mandarin or Cantonese?

Lee Sau Dan wrote:
>
> >>>>> "benlizross" == benlizross <benlizro@xxxxxxxxxx> writes:
>
> >> > FYI, "typhoon" is [t'Oi22 fUN55] in Cantonese. So, if you
> >> > think "typhoon" came from Cantonese, you not only have to
> >> > explain the discrepancy in the final "n", but also the
> >> > wrongly spelt diphthong in the first syllable.
> >>
> >> Can you point to _any_ English word that ends with, or even
> >> contains, the sequence "oong" /uwN/? -- Peter T. Daniels
> >> grammatim@xxxxxxx
>
> benlizross> Is every little phonotactic gap like this assumed to
> benlizross> be the result of a Rule of English Phonology? I
> benlizross> believe the Aussies have /uN/ in "boong". (And maybe
> benlizross> some sinophiles pronounce names like "Fung" and "Sung"
> benlizross> that way.) Even if we imagine that /uwN/ is somehow
> benlizross> impossible, would not /uN/ be a possible English form
> benlizross> for the Cantonese word? FWIW OED has an 1806 citation
> benlizross> in which the word is spelled <ty-foong>.

I'm trying to explain to LSD that absence of /N/ in the English word
does not require absence of /N/ in the source language. The /uN/
sequence in the source language (for instance, Cantonese) should yield
/uwn/ in English.

> And Peter, which English dialect would pronounce "ty" as [t'Oi]?

I don't know what your <'> is intended for, but American stage Cockney
has [Oj] for /ay/ (just check *** Van Dyke in *Mary Poppins*!).
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@xxxxxxx
.