Re: _Verum Et Factum Convertuntur_ (or: Surprised By Syntax)

stygging@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > stygging@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > >
> ...
> > >
> > > Oh, I didn't get it at first. You see, my pronunciation of y in
> > > Stygging is significantly different from "i" in ignorant, so the
> > > wordplay didn't make much sense, but now I see it. Styggnorant -
> > > St-ignorant. Good one! I wish I could say that about the rest of your
> > > post.
> >
> > How do you pronounce it?
>
> That's a fairly irrelevant question in this context.

You introduced the matter; answer the question.

Why are you afraid to reveal anything of yourself?

> > > > Duality of patterning happens to infuse all areas of cognitive behavior;
> > > > it was first noticed in language, toward the end of the 19th century, by
> > > > Baudouin de Courtenay.
> > > >
> > > > Styggnorant John doesn't seem to realize that Hockett's and Martinet's
> > > > phrases are two names for the same thing, one in English, one in French,
> > > > that were coined about the same time (late 1950s).
> > > >
> > > > If "wow" and "dude" are supposed to be belittling, well, they are; they
> > > > eloquently display his ignorance. Unless Styggnorant John can come up
> > > > with some levels of language -- and cognition -- to which duality of
> > > > patterning is "completely irrelevant," he really ought to quit typing.
> > >
> > > So you listed the names of a couple of chaps, added some dates and an
> > > evaluation of my level of knowledge.
> > >
> > > Did it ever occur to you that other people might have hoped for
> > > something about the actual subject?
> > >
> > > Your posts have this unfortunate tendency to list dates and names of
> > > people who in the past have written articles or books, which you guess
> > > may have had something interesting to say. So far I haven't seen much
> > > evidence that you read any of it. I here use the word "read" in the
> > > sense "read and understand".
> >
> > If you'd like to enroll in a class I teach, and pay me for it, I'll
> > devote the time to spelling everything out instead of showing you where
> > to learn something for yourself.
>
> As I wrote only a few lines above, there is no reason to believe that
> you know anything of value.

What are your qualifications to make judgments on the matter?

> > > Not only is there a lack of evidence that you understood it. There is
> > > also some, but admittedly not devastating, evidence that you did not
> > > understand it. Any thinking person who has read and understood a text
> > > agrees with some parts and disagrees with some parts. Any thinking
> > > person, who recommends a text to someone else, will point out what the
> > > pitfalls are and which points one should take with a grain of salt.
> > >
> > > You never seem to disagree with your authorities. That suggests that
> > > you did not understand them.
> >
> > Ok, read Hockett's or Martinet's presentation and tell me what you
> > disagree with. They simply present some familiar facts and a new way of
> > looking at them.
>
> Sigh! So much for "any thinking person"... What in heaven or on earth
> possessed you to write down references to persons who present "some
> familiar facts", instead of writing down the facts directly, so we all
> could enjoy them?

Simple fact: languages use phonemes. Interpretation: phonemic analysis
is the most important of the dozen or so "design features" of human
languages.

> You once more recommend something with no caveats. And the same thing!
> Are you really so [insert any desired adjective here] that you believe
> those pieces are perfect? What an incredible gullibility and reverence
> for authorities! God help us for your getting hold of Hippocrates, or
> you will claim that the only elements in the world are earth, air,
> water and fire.

Did your first-grade teachers tell you that sometimes <t> isn't
pronounced [t]?

If they did, wouldn't it have confused you?

If I present to you the sorts of discussions that would be appropriate
to an audience of specialists in language origins, you wouldn't have the
slightest idea what I was talking about.

> > Something I myself did within my own area of specialization. But I take
> > it you don't have access to a library with linguistics books in it?
>
> Why would anyone go to a newsgroup and look for references to books he
> already has access to? I'm fully able to search through paper
> information myself. Any why would anyone try the references you give?
> The ones I have checked have been completely irrelevant, or at best
> only slighty related to the subject that everyone else in the threads
> has been discussing.

Which ones have you checked? I'm getting pretty sick and tired of your
contentless accusations and evasions of direct questions.

You haven't offered an iota of evidence that you have ever learned a
scintilla of information about language or linguistics, so you must be
treated as a naive beginner.
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@xxxxxxx
.

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