Re: "children" in the UK?


Stewart Gordon wrote:
> Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
> > Stewart Gordon wrote:
> <snip>
> > No but I failed to engage "pedant mode". Is this better: many
> > airlines restrict child fares to an age lower than 16? Certainly
> > every one that my family has used, or has considered using,
> > restricts child tickets to an age substantially below 16.
>
> Would you care to share some examples? Moreover, can you recall how
> many different countries the various airlines you've travelled on are
> based in?

Last year, we flew on Emirates from the UK to Thailand. My 13 year old
son had to pay adult fare. My wife did the research and made the
bookings. I don't know which other airlines she considered but she did
comment that they all had the same limit. I have seen a 12 limit for
child fares myself. It is very easy to check, many airlines have
websites and you can get a quote from them. It is easy to find the
websites. I don't have the time or energy to do any research now since
I don't plan any flying holidays with the family in the near future
but, if you are interested, it should be easy to do it yourself.

> > What is your evidence for: "Public transport companies tend to stop
> > it around 16"? Have you surveyed public transport companies around
> > the world? It could be only the small proportion that you have
> > seen which stop at 16.
>
> Maybe. But airlines operate internationally by their very nature,
> compared to the average bus or train company. So maybe I was thinking
> only of the UK and my experience thereof when talking about these
> things. Even so, I send "tend to" and "around".

Why is the international nature of airlines relevant? Even if it meant
they were more consistent, it still would not obviously imply any
particular age limit. Also, even though there are many airlines there
are probably far more bus and train companies. My limited experience
of airlines is likely to be a better sample than your experience of bus
and train companies.

Anyway, my main point was only that whatever these limits are, they
have little bearing on the general meaning of words such as "adult" and
"child". Whatever, an accurate survey may say about plane, bus, and
train age limits, I would maintain this claim.

> <snip>
> >> Is there, anywhere in the world, a minimum age for opening any
> >> kind of bank account whatsoever?
> >
> > I don't know if there is a state imposed minimum age and I did not
> > intend to suggest that there was. However, I would not bet against
> > such a law existing somewhere, it's a big world. I do think
> > individual banks impose limits. Some very restricted trust type
> > accounts may be possible at any age but I would expect minimum ages
> > for real accounts. By real, I mean the account holder has some
> > significant control such as a cheque book or ATM card.
>
> I was once told that there's no minimum age over here for having a bank
> account in general. But does anyone know what the minimum age is these
> days for a cheque book, cheque guarantee card, debit card or ATM card?

I would be willing to believe that there is no legislation in the UK
that sets a minimum age for bank accounts. I would be less willing to
believe that no other country set a limit or that no banks chose to set
a limit. Just because there is no legal minimum age does not mean that
a bank cannot choose to set one. The legal minimum age for drinking in
the UK is 18 yet some clubs choose to set a higher minimum age. My 13
old son has a ATM / debit card but is not yet trusted (by the bank)
with a cheque book. We have not asked for a credit card but I would be
quite sure that the answer would be no. We have not checked other
banks since he does not need a cheque book anyway.

> <snip>
> > The education context may encourage the use of boys and girls.
> > Consider several children from the same school year. Some go onto
> > further education and some directly to work. Do you continue to
> > call one group boys and girls when the others have become men and
> > women?
>
> I think it's more of a question of whether I start calling the others
> men and women quite yet.

Indeed but do you?

> > Nonetheless, I don't recall being called a boy often when I was at
> > university. However, if you attend sixth form (optional 2 more
> > years after 16), you will probably have your 18th birthday while
> > still at school. So, in the school playground there may be a few
> > men and women mixed among the boys and girls. I doubt that many
> > would think of it that way.
>
> Indeed. It can depend on the context whether someone is thought of as a
> boy/girl or a man/woman. Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be any
> obvious consensus among the PhD students of my department.
>
> > I have never heard of the show: Boys and girls.
>
> http://www.ukgameshows.com/index.php/Boys_and_Girls
>
> I only saw it once AFAICR.
>
> <snip>
> > Yes, I may say: "Come on now children behave yourselves" when
> > referring to adults old enough to have children of their own.
> > These extreme cases would mostly be jocular.
>
> With the age of consent at 16, all adults are old enough to have children.

True, I was forgetting pedant mode again. Anyway, what is the
relevance of the age of consent? Most girls are physically capable of
having a child below 16 and many do. However, I hope that it was
obvious that I had more typical parents in mind. My background in
maths means that I can be pedantic when required but usually outside
maths, I interpret statements a bit more flexibly. If someone says:
"Dogs like to chase cats", do you challenge them to prove that every
dog in the world likes to chase cats? Conversation would become rather
tedious if such levels of accuracy were always demanded.

> Interesting story: Take a recent wedding. Four of the people there in
> descending order of age: brother of the bride (that's me), groom, bride,
> sister of the groom. Guess which of the four was the first to have a child!

Plenty similar stories exist. There are cases of people who have an
uncle who is younger than them .

> >>>> I recall one to the effect of "girl gored to death by elephant",
> >>>> and was surprised to discover that it was talking about a
> >>>> 20-year-old, considering not so much the terminology as that it
> >>>> sounded like the kind of tragedy that would happen to a small
> >>>> child.
> >>>
> >>> That is a bit surprising. Where was it? In a newspaper?
> >>> Serious? Trashy?
> >>
> >> Newspaper as far as I remember. Probably the Daily Mail, but I
> >> can't seem to find the article online. I did, however, find
> >> another one which I'm only guessing is about the same person:
> >
> > I don't read the Mail often so I am not familiar with their style
> > but in the absence of a precise definition, journalists are free to
> > choose whether to use girl or woman to make their story more
> > interesting. "Girl gored to death by elephant" probably turns more
> > eyes than "Woman gored to death by elephant".
>
> There are certainly some eyes to turn by the news that someone as old as
> 20 can be this vulnerable.
>
> > If you read a tabloid story about "grannies" do you assume that the
> > journalist has checked that the women involved have grandchildren?
> <snip>
>
> If the story is about their having grandchildren, then yes. But
> otherwise, maybe it depends.

How about a headline about "Granny bashers"? I have seen the term
used. Do you suppose that the bashers ask their potential victims
whether they have grandchildren before they attack?

> Stewart.
>
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> My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on
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--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair

.

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