Re: Is there an optimal sequence for language acquisition?


Lee Sau Dan wrote:
> >>>>> "leuwarden" == leuwarden <leuwarden@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
>
> leuwarden> .... and the motivation! the inclination! if your new
> leuwarden> girl friend speaks Chinese, you'll speak Chinese by
> leuwarden> Christmas
>
> I already speak Chinese.

sorry. I hope it did not sound offensive. it is simply that Chinese is
popularly believed to be the most incredibly difficult thing to learn.
partly, maybe, this is because until recently China was simply so far
away. the worold was Eurocentric. and you would know that in English,
in Spanish, and in German, "Chinese" is used to mean "unintelligible:

"me parece chino", "it sounds Chinese to me" , "kommt mir chinesisch
vor"

but an American friend of mine once shared a hospital room with a man
from China who was terribly ill and could not explain anything to the
doctors. my friend tried and together they invented some sort of code
.....

>
>
> And you're wrong. My cousin (Chinese) has a boy friend (Anglo-Saxon
> ancestry, from New Zealand) for many years. They're getting married
> in a few months. This guy has been living in Hong Kong for more than
> 1 year. My cousin's mother speaks no English (other than making up
> broken English from the limited vocabulary she could handle). And I
> have had many dinner gatherings with this pair and other family
> members. At these gatherings, there is a lot of chatting in
> Cantonese. Only occasionally do we -- this generation who has learnt
> English -- talk to this NZ guy in English, or translation the current
> chatting contents to/from English.
>
> If your theory is correct, how come this guy from NZ, having a
> HK-immigrant girl-friend for years, living in HK for over 18 months,
> surrounded by people speaking Cantonese, has not yet mastered
> Cantonese by *last* Christmas?

it was not a theory. it was meant more like a recommendation: if you
want to learn a language, first get to know and like the people etc

I know there are not any rules. I have seen quite a few stories of the
kind you told here.


>
>
>
> leuwarden> I only know about English, and English is non-typical
> leuwarden> as a language in many regards. Still, I found that
> leuwarden> women learn more easily than men and that the best
> leuwarden> learners,
>
> Because women like to talk more than men do?

that could be. but also because, unlike women, men are after content
rather than form.

somebody says "I going speak". you correct him: "I AM going TO speak".

he answers: don´t be such a stickler, for heaven's sake.

women love to get it just right, and in the long run this pays off, of
course.

(I am also pretty sure that somehow this is why gay men learn so very
well)
>
> My impression is that men generally tend to think more and talk less
> than women do.

yes. certainly. I thought there were even medical or psychiatric
studies to show that women have a more developed linguistic sense. it
is necessarioly a bit messy as a theory.
>
>
>
> leuwarden> there is yet another problem: what is the aim? at what
> leuwarden> point do you really *know* a language?
>
> That's why I hate to answer questions like: which/how many languages
> do you _know_? Well... please tell me how you define "knowing a
> language" first. Then, define "a language" (vs. "dialect", and
> probably also "accent").

here is the formula that I have been using to explain the two or three
or four that I "know":

a + b + c+ d.... = 1

where a, b, c.... are the languages that you "know".



>
>
> leuwarden> For most adult people it would be necessary to read and
> leuwarden> write;
>
> I don't think so. Many languages are not written.
>
>
> leuwarden> spoken exercises are too strenuous for them.
>
> Why?

for instance for myself. for me to assemble a sentence in a foreign
language is like doing a fairly long mathematical equation without
writing anything down. I can do it, but it is tough.




>
>
> leuwarden> But most people hate writing and reading. They try to
> leuwarden> memorize instead. They fail.
>
> Yeah. And most people hate learning, too. If not, why are softwares
> selling the (bogus) quality of being "easy to learn" or even
> "intuitive"?

and with illustrations! a complete page: six chairs, six cats, only to
illustrate under, on, beside, near etc........


> --
> Lee Sau Dan ??? ~{@nJX6X~}
>
> E-mail: danlee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee

.

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