Re: Is there an optimal sequence for language acquisition?


Lee Sau Dan wrote:
> >>>>> "leuwarden" == leuwarden <leuwarden@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
>

>
> leuwarden> partly, maybe, this is because until recently China was
> leuwarden> simply so far away.
>
> But you've been importing Chinese products for more than 1000 years:
> silk, tea. And you've imported many Chinese technologies: gunpowder
> (and firework), magnetic compass, ...

I would have thought that tea was from India, and I did not know about
gunpowder. I had heard about Marco Polo, but still, I simply do not
know anything about China. The Panda bear? the way they build roofs?
and a very beautiful one page story by Franz Kafka and a fairy tale by
Hans Christian Andersen about a nightingale....but of these two I am
not completely sure that they are on a Chinese background. And the
Great Wall that is also pictured in some those famous Heinecken
landscape ads.


>
>
> leuwarden> the worold was Eurocentric. and you would know that
> leuwarden> in English, in Spanish, and in German, "Chinese" is
> leuwarden> used to mean "unintelligible:
>
> In English? English speakers seem to like to use "Greek" for that
> purpose.

yes. I was wrong. I asked a native speaker and it is as you say.
>
>
> leuwarden> "me parece chino", "it sounds Chinese to me" , "kommt
> leuwarden> mir chinesisch vor"
>
> Say it again in English!

:-)
>
>
>
> >> If your theory is correct, how come this guy from NZ, having a
> >> HK-immigrant girl-friend for years, living in HK for over 18
> >> months, surrounded by people speaking Cantonese, has not yet
> >> mastered Cantonese by *last* Christmas?
>
> leuwarden> it was not a theory. it was meant more like a
> leuwarden> recommendation: if you want to learn a language, first
> leuwarden> get to know and like the people etc
>
> That's far away from loving a person of that language.

Of course. I said it lightly.
>

>
> So, finding a lover to learn a language doesn't work. You need to
> love the language, not a person.

???

In Switzerland, English and German were obligatory and in my early
childhood we spoke French at home.

At any rate, at least in Europe, English is not optional anymore.
Though I got to like the US newspapers, I did not get anything out of
their literature and poetry. So I had to keep reading newspapers.

>
>

>
> leuwarden> somebody says "I going speak". you correct him: "I AM
> leuwarden> going TO speak".
>
> Well... Chinese is much less rigid in this aspect. Maybe, you'd like
> to learn Chinese. :)

I tried to learn Russian and failed.
>
>
>
> leuwarden> (I am also pretty sure that somehow this is why gay men
> leuwarden> learn so very well)
>
> Well? You mean gay men must show some feminine character? I've heard
> that there are many gay men who remain very masculine in character and
> appearance. They just like men instead of women.

As a translator I only get to know the chatty kind, but they also go to
the gym to get those huffy puffy muscles that ironically and
pitifully make them look weak


>
>
> leuwarden> there is yet another problem: what is the aim? at what
> leuwarden> point do you really *know* a language?
> >> That's why I hate to answer questions like: which/how many
> >> languages do you _know_? Well... please tell me how you define
> >> "knowing a language" first. Then, define "a language" (vs.
> >> "dialect", and probably also "accent").
>
> leuwarden> here is the formula that I have been using to explain
> leuwarden> the two or three or four that I "know":
>
> leuwarden> a + b + c+ d.... = 1
>
> leuwarden> where a, b, c.... are the languages that you "know".
>
> Then, you should define "+" for these objects, and define what "1"
> means in that equation. :)

that is probably different in each case. I speak German, English, and
Spanish fairly well, but as soon as a topic is of interest to me, I
would look for terminology or ideas in all three languages. so they
become one. however, I try to avoid what linguists call "code
switching"


>
>

> leuwarden> for instance for myself. for me to assemble a sentence
> leuwarden> in a foreign language is like doing a fairly long
> leuwarden> mathematical equation without writing anything down. I
> leuwarden> can do it, but it is tough.
>
> I don't have any problems in it.

I meant beginners. The effort beginners have to make to assemble a
sentence prevents them from thinking of something to say. I do not have
that problem anymore now, but it means that learning a language is
tough in the beginning and then becomes more like a game

> Maybe, you're a more visually
> oriented person.

absolutely not

> So, you'd like to see things written down.

yes, but that is not "visual". If I were blind, I would want the text
in Braile. the spoken word lacks definition and of course permanence. I
want to take in things at my leisure. (I hate film for instance)

> I also
> like to see things written down, and find it much easier to read than
> to listen. But I have no problem making up a sentence in a foreign
> language without writing it down.

If the verbal sequence is complicated? A beginner has to make a very
big effort to assemble tense and mood and interrogation or negation,
and for most people this is disciplinary drilling that they try to
avoid

> (Except for very very very lengthy
> sentences, which even native speakers won't compose when speaking.)
>
> In case you're not aware of it, English is a foreign language for me.

No. It is impossible to notice.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Lee Sau Dan ??? ~{@nJX6X~}
>
> E-mail: danlee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee

.

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