Re: prestige dialects Re: Why is Hindi perceived as being more refined than Punjabi?

Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
>
> Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > Vanya6724 wrote:
> > >
> > > Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> >
> > > But the same would be true of a London footballer speaking BBC English
> > > or a Punjabi automechanic speaking literary Hindi. "Prestige dialect"
> > > is misleading, aren't we talking about manners of speech that mark the
> > > speaker as upper class? Whether or not people want to imitate that
> >
> > The US doesn't _have_ class the way England (and presumably India) does.
>
> That I find hard to believe. You have terms such as "trailer trash",
> doesn't seem much different from over here.

We are told that Brits can only with the greatest of difficulty escape
the class they are born into. That's not the case with socioeconomic
status over here.

And it doesn't even depend on accent.

> > > class depends on the culture and the times. In both America and India
> > > it is very possible to distinguish social class by dialect.
> > > > (Compare, if you must use movie references, "Mr. Potter," i.e. Lionel
> > > > Barrymore, with everyone else in *It's a Wonderful Life*.)
> > >
> > > But doesn't that contradict your original point, that "prestige"
> > > dialects aren't recognized in America? Clearly "Mr.Potter" is supposed
> > > to be identified by his accent as belonging to the upper class. It is
> > > clearly recognizable as a prestige dialect. The difference between
> > > America and India is that Americans are traditionally supposed to hide
> > > their upper class status.
> >
> > Actually, he's supposed to be identified by his accent as a villain! The
> > conventions, presumably inherited from the stage, were already in place
> > in early talking pictures, and continued for decades -- in *Spartacus*
> > (1959?), the good guys (the slaves) talk like Americans, the bad guys
> > (the Romans) like Brits.
> >
> > (I haven't seen Russell Crowe's *Gladiator*; how is it there? He's
> > Streep-like in his ability to do dialects, so he could quite likely talk
> > American while the Romans still talk Brit.)

> I am not very familiar with Streep or Crowe. Are they both good or
> both bad at dialects?

google, as people like to say to me, is your friend.
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@xxxxxxx
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: prestige dialects Re: Why is Hindi perceived as being more refined than Punjabi?
    ... > But the same would be true of a London footballer speaking BBC English ... In both America and India ... > it is very possible to distinguish social class by dialect. ... > to be identified by his accent as belonging to the upper class. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: prestige dialects Re: Why is Hindi perceived as being more refined than Punjabi?
    ... >> Peter T. Daniels wrote: ... In both America and India ... >> it is very possible to distinguish social class by dialect. ... >> to be identified by his accent as belonging to the upper class. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: WWWOT: the election in Wisconsin
    ... You become acutely aware of how you really sound when you relocate. ... I wonder if she ever made an effort to eliminate any particular accent ... Bush is clearly upper class, ... Obama has a similar accent, but it is overlaid with a lot of rhetorical ...
    (rec.arts.mystery)
  • Re: prestige dialects Re: Why is Hindi perceived as being more refined than Punjabi?
    ... >>> The variety heard in the speech of such as Katharine Hepburn, ... In both America and India ... to be identified by his accent as belonging to the upper class. ... clearly recognizable as a prestige dialect. ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Mens Hour Books
    ... and in America it has done so. ... is defined not by social status per se but by the money which buys ... self-defined upper class neighborhoods and you can't live there ... its most basic bare bones, is a sense of entitlement, and there are ...
    (rec.arts.sf.composition)