Re: Latin pronunciation puzzle

"Franz Gnaedinger" <frgn@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Now for the way you
> would pronounce the name attenboroughi: {tsaglossus aetenboroui].
> The -oui contains an inevitable w,

No, it means a diphthong [ou] followed by the syllable [i]. I'm sorry for not
making this clear. (Using the IPA notation would not be feasible here, but I
could have used hyphens to indicate syllable structure.) Finns tend to
pronounce -ough in English names as [ou] due to the orthography, though some
people would probably say [o] or even use the schwa, when pronouncing an
English name in isolation. Of course, when speaking English, the
pronunciation is different, or at least we have been taught so. (Since
Finnish lacks the schwa, we very often replace a schwa with another vowel,
typically according to the spelling, or using [ø].)

Admittedly, the difference between [ou-i] and [owi] (or [ouwi]) is relatively
small. Finnish has no [w] sound, and we very often substitute [v] for [w]
even in new loanwords from English written with "w", such as "web" or
"watti".

> My feeling for language tells me that a submerged ending resurfaces
> when a word gets a new ending in another language.

I don't think happens except in very rare occasions (e.g., in linguists'
speech) and in situations where the orthography still carries the ending that
has been lost in speech. An apparent explanation for the latter is that
people often don't know the pronunciation in the foreign language well but
"read it as written". Thus, for example, when reading a British English name
ending with "r", probably very many people read the "r" as [r] or as some
similar sound (according to what "r" normally means in their own language).

When a new ending is involved, it is often natural read "mute" sounds. This
is normal in Finnish, which has a rich repertoire of different suffixes, so
that it would be awkward to glue them to a word mechanically. For example, we
normally pronounce "Voltaire" as ending with [r], but any inclined form, such
as the genitive "Voltairen", uses [e]. Normally Finnish uses [i] as a a
binding vowel between the final consonant of a foreign word and the initial
consonant of a Finnish suffix, e.g. Smith : Smithin. The reason why foreign
words ending with a mute -e are an exception is orthographic, not historical.
(In some situations, though, we commonly write "e" but read [i], e.g.
Netscapen [netskeipin].)

However, in an ending like -ough, we don't pronounce the "gh". If we say
[ou], it's because of the "u" in the spelling.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Educating Language Gifted Students Questions
    ... The English word "sentence" has the same ... Have the student find similar examples that occur in his ... > native language and the languagehe is studying. ... > Type 1 - the transliteration of a foreign word/phrase into common ...
    (uk.culture.language.english)
  • Re: Naming Conventions - Was: Asha Bhosle Interview...
    ... So we write it correctly in our own language. ... When we create an English spelling for our name, ... If I want my American friends to pronounce my name correctly, ... in the west get the sound of "th' correctly after a bit of practice. ...
    (rec.music.indian.misc)
  • Re: Scottish as a Second Language
    ... Scottish as a Second Language ... It's a common problem for people learning a foreign language. ... English learner. ...
    (soc.culture.scottish)
  • Re: Latin pronunciation puzzle
    ... > I think the realistic approach is that the pronunciation of scientific names ... >> justified by the Middle English burw, ... > language it belongs to and to append the Latin ... would pronounce the name attenboroughi: ...
    (sci.lang)
  • Re: Naming Conventions - Was: Asha Bhosle Interview...
    ... So we write it correctly in our own language. ... When we create an English spelling for our name, ... If I want my American friends to pronounce my name correctly, ... in the west get the sound of "th' correctly after a bit of practice. ...
    (rec.music.indian.misc)
Quantcast